Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Dec '13 20:50
    From Reuters:

    One-third of Americans reject the idea of evolution and Republicans have grown more skeptical about it, according to a poll released on Monday.

    Sixty percent of Americans say that "humans and other living things have evolved over time," the telephone survey by the Pew Research Center's Religion and Public Life Project showed (Click here for the full survey).

    But 33 percent reject the idea of evolution, saying that "humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time," Pew said in a statement.

    Although this percentage remained steady since 2009, the last time Pew asked the question, there was a growing partisan gap on whether humans evolved.

    "The gap is coming from the Republicans, where fewer are now saying that humans have evolved over time," said Cary Funk, a Pew senior researcher who conducted the analysis.

    The poll showed 43 percent of Republicans and 67 percent of Democrats say humans have evolved over time, compared with 54 percent and 64 percent respectively four years ago.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/30/us-usa-poll-evolution-idUSBRE9BT0LC20131230

    I mean it's scary enough that only 2/3 of Democrats would agree with a statement with such overwhelming evidence to support it as "humans and other living things have evolved over time" but that in a mere four years Republican support for such an obvious fact had dwindled 11 points and is now a minority position among the GOP is staggering.

    Explanations anyone (beside the tongue in cheek thread title)?
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    31 Dec '13 20:56
    Right wingers want to seem more pious than the left. Also the rich ones have no selection process keeping them smart i.e. they can be stupid and still pull in huge incomes.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    31 Dec '13 21:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    From Reuters:

    One-third of Americans reject the idea of evolution and Republicans have grown more skeptical about it, according to a poll released on Monday.

    Sixty percent of Americans say that "humans and other living things have evolved over time," the telephone survey by the Pew Research Center's Religion and Public Life Project showed (Click h ...[text shortened]... GOP is staggering.

    Explanations anyone (beside the tongue in cheek thread title)?
    I would guess counter-authoritarianism.

    The Tea Party culture right now is that if "they" say it it must be opposed because "they" are trying to ram their statist agenda down our throats and so "they" must be resisted wherever possible. so, if "they" say that we shouldn't use energy anymore because of the great global warming hoax/ wealth redistribution scheme, "they" must must generally be untrustworthy. Therefore, that "they" say humans evolved is as good a reason as any for I to say they haven't.

    Or something like that.
  4. 31 Dec '13 21:31
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    From Reuters:

    One-third of Americans reject the idea of evolution and Republicans have grown more skeptical about it, according to a poll released on Monday.

    Sixty percent of Americans say that "humans and other living things have evolved over time," the telephone survey by the Pew Research Center's Religion and Public Life Project showed (Click h ...[text shortened]... GOP is staggering.

    Explanations anyone (beside the tongue in cheek thread title)?
    I am economically conservative so I often vote Republican even though I disagree with many of their social issues. Nevertheless, the number of people that do not believe that humans and other living things have evolved over time simply defies logic.
    Perhaps the increasing numbers of Republicans denying the existence of evolution was really a statement against liberal democratic policies more than a belief that evolution does not exist. However, even if this was true it does not explain the mind boggling 1/3 of people who identify themselves as Democrats yet do not acknowledge evolution.
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Dec '13 21:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I am economically conservative so I often vote Republican even though I disagree with many of their social issues. Nevertheless, the number of people that do not believe that humans and other living things have evolved over time simply defies logic.
    Perhaps the increasing numbers of Republicans denying the existence of evolution was really a statement ...[text shortened]... nd boggling 1/3 of people who identify themselves as Democrats yet do not acknowledge evolution.
    What do "liberal democratic policies" have to do with evolution?

    The demographics might have something to do with it: the older you are the more likely you are to reject evolution and the less educated you are the same. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-evolution/

    However that doesn't explain the sharp drop among Republicans in the last few years; if I recall correctly previous surveys had found TP types were at least as well-educated as the general populace.
  6. 31 Dec '13 21:50
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    What do "liberal democratic policies" have to do with evolution?

    The demographics might have something to do with it: the older you are the more likely you are to reject evolution and the less educated you are the same. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-evolution/

    However that doesn't explain the sharp ...[text shortened]... ctly previous surveys had found TP types were at least as well-educated as the general populace.
    I think that it is impossible for a rational person to not believe in evolution. Thus, it seems logical to me that when a person denies evolution they are really making more of a general statement against social change.
  7. 31 Dec '13 21:52
    Political discourse has become more polarized. This means people who lack the ability to think for themselves are more prone to extreme viewpoints.
  8. 31 Dec '13 22:19 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I think that it is impossible for a rational person to not believe in evolution. Thus, it seems logical to me that when a person denies evolution they are really making more of a general statement against social change.
    Hardly, unless of course you are willing to state that scientific data is not open to interpretation, after all, its a well known FACT, that the fossil record DOES NOT support a gradual transmutation from one species to another as Darwin had predicted, but instead demonstrates an unprecedented explosion in life. To make the theory fit the evidence the idea of punctuated equilibrium was invented. Now i cite this not as a claim for either creationism or materialism but simply that the very same scientific data can be used to support either claim.

    I would also like to mention that its been a general strategy of those opposed to anything other than a materialistic perspective to engage in this type of slander in that those who profess anything contrary to it are stupid, etc when in fact many of the individuals who do are scientific experts in their respective fields, just sayin.

    The problem has been that what is understood as Darwinian evolution (transmutation of one species into another) is described in terms of adaptation which is something else entirely, thus while a fit lion may be better adapted to its environment than an unfit lion, it remains a lion never the less and does not transmutate into something else. It is also understood that mutations themselves are on the whole nearly always inferior to the parent as Dobrosky proved with the Drosophila melanogaster (fruit fly) experiments. Added to this is the astronomical unlikelihood of life having arisen by chance (not strictly evolution but abiogenesis) and to many it takes a greater leap of faith to believe in materialism than it does in creationism, again, just sayin.

    Let me put it in perspective, if you believe in Darwinian evolution, you believe that whales evolved in the sea, came to land and then returned to the sea and that the whales nearest relative is a hippopotamus or an aquatic deer.
  9. 31 Dec '13 22:38
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I think that it is impossible for a rational person to not believe in evolution. Thus, it seems logical to me that when a person denies evolution they are really making more of a general statement against social change.
    Belief in "evolution" doesn't equate to swallowing the theory whole. Even among evolutionists there are serious differences in what the theory means.
  10. 31 Dec '13 22:41
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Political discourse has become more polarized. This means people who lack the ability to think for themselves are more prone to extreme viewpoints.
    "This means people who lack the ability to think for themselves are more prone to extreme viewpoints."

    You seem to imply that the less educated tend to not think for themselves, whereas in reality it is the highly educated who tend to be followers. One gets credentialed by following, passing exams etc., not by leading independent thought.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Dec '13 23:10
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Hardly, unless of course you are willing to state that scientific data is not open to interpretation, after all, its a well known FACT, that the fossil record DOES NOT support a gradual transmutation from one species to another as Darwin had predicted, but instead demonstrates an unprecedented explosion in life. To make the theory fit the evidence t ...[text shortened]... n returned to the sea and that the whales nearest relative is a hippopotamus or an aquatic deer.
    I'm not interested in a silly "debate" over evolution; I'll leave that crackpot musing to Spirituality.

    To be clear, you disagree with the statement "humans and other living things have evolved over time"?
  12. 31 Dec '13 23:20
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    From Reuters:

    One-third of Americans reject the idea of evolution and Republicans have grown more skeptical about it, according to a poll released on Monday.

    Sixty percent of Americans say that "humans and other living things have evolved over time," the telephone survey by the Pew Research Center's Religion and Public Life Project showed (Click h ...[text shortened]... GOP is staggering.

    Explanations anyone (beside the tongue in cheek thread title)?
    I agree that Republicans are more anti-science than Democrats on a lot of issues, but Democrats are worse on a few issues as well, and shouldn't get a complete pass.

    A Pew poll from 2009 polled Democrats, Republicans, and Scientists on various issues. Democrats were more anti-science (meaning that they disagreed more with the scientists position) on Animal Research (Scientists: 93 pct. in favor, Republicans: 62 pct., Democrats: 48 pct.) and Nuclear Power (S: 70 pct., R: 62 pct., D: 45 pct.). A 2006 Pew poll on Genetically Modified Food had (R: 48 % and D: 42%, it did not poll scientists, but I am assuming a large majority are in favor since the FDA does not even require labeling of such food).

    http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Public_Opinion/Food_and_Biotechnology/2006summary.pdf

    http://www.people-press.org/2009/07/09/section-5-evolution-climate-change-and-other-issues/
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Dec '13 23:31
    Originally posted by PatNovak
    I agree that Republicans are more anti-science than Democrats on a lot of issues, but Democrats are worse on a few issues as well, and shouldn't get a complete pass.

    A Pew poll from 2009 polled Democrats, Republicans, and Scientists on various issues. Democrats were more anti-science (meaning that they disagreed more with the scientists position) on Anim ...[text shortened]... f

    http://www.people-press.org/2009/07/09/section-5-evolution-climate-change-and-other-issues/
    It is one thing to disagree with science about science (as people who don't believe in evolution do) and quite another thing to disagree with scientists on public policy issues (like whether having more nuclear power plants is a "good" thing). The latter requires consideration of factors that may well lie outside of the scientist's expertise (like how much risk is acceptable).
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Jan '14 01:41
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    It is one thing to disagree with science about science (as people who don't believe in evolution do) and quite another thing to disagree with scientists on public policy issues (like whether having more nuclear power plants is a "good" thing). The latter requires consideration of factors that may well lie outside of the scientist's expertise (like how much risk is acceptable).
    Well, to play Devil's advocate, the issue of whether humans evolved from other species also requires consideration of factors that may well lie outside of the scientist's expertise, such as theology and history. Theoretically, you could rationally agree with scientists that humans show scientific signs of evolution but believe that a Deity inculcated humans with those signs but that humans were created as full blown humans.
  15. 01 Jan '14 02:10
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I'm not interested in a silly "debate" over evolution; I'll leave that crackpot musing to Spirituality.

    To be clear, you disagree with the statement "humans and other living things have evolved over time"?
    Yeah I know, you simply want to label anyone who disagrees with evolution to be labeled a moron and get on with it.

    No questions asked, just accept your belief blindly.