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Debates Forum

  1. 17 Jun '17 14:18
    I hear many on the left talk about "revolution". What does this mean to you? Is violence OK to achieve your goals or no?

    I also see people walk around proudly with Che Guevara T shirts. Who here identifies with the revolutionary?
  2. 17 Jun '17 14:31
    http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/news/1006166/bernie-sanders-talks-the-election-and-revolution-on-the-late-show/?cbsclick=ww4SYwWQx25jzhvxg5y2uSnmUkhQNWzxxzb90k0&vndid=10078&clickid=10078&sharedid=&ftag=AAM98bbc2a&utm_source=affiliate

    Bernie Sanders speaks of Revolution. What does that mean for Bernie supporters?
  3. 17 Jun '17 14:33
    Che Guevara seems to be the universal symbol for left wing revolution.

    Does he appeal to you?

    http://www.dazeddigital.com/fashion/article/32208/1/how-the-che-guevara-t-shirt-became-a-global-phenomenon
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    17 Jun '17 14:47
    Originally posted by whodey
    I hear many on the left talk about "revolution". What does this mean to you? Is violence OK to achieve your goals or no?

    I also see people walk around proudly with Che Guevara T shirts. Who here identifies with the revolutionary?
    Was violence OK to achieve George Washington's goals? Che was a revolutionary against oppressive, tyrannical governments something the Framers would have understood and supported (at least rhetorically).

    Bernie is talking about a political revolution; only right wingers are suggesting its A-OK to shoot government officials (well it was OK when Obama was President).
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    17 Jun '17 14:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/news/1006166/bernie-sanders-talks-the-election-and-revolution-on-the-late-show/?cbsclick=ww4SYwWQx25jzhvxg5y2uSnmUkhQNWzxxzb90k0&vndid=10078&clickid=10078&sharedid=&ftag=AAM98bbc2a&utm_source=affiliate

    Bernie Sanders speaks of Revolution. What does that mean for Bernie supporters?
    I'll do your homework for ya:

    Our Revolution will reclaim democracy for the working people of our country by harnessing the transformative energy of the “political revolution.” Through supporting a new generation of progressive leaders, empowering millions to fight for progressive change and elevating the political consciousness, Our Revolution will transform American politics to make our political and economic systems once again responsive to the needs of working families.

    Our Revolution has three intertwined goals: to revitalize American democracy, empower progressive leaders and elevate the political consciousness.

    https://ourrevolution.com/about/
  6. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    17 Jun '17 18:49
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I'll do your homework for ya:

    Our Revolution will reclaim democracy for the working people of our country by harnessing the transformative energy of the “political revolution.” Through supporting a new generation of progressive leaders, empowering millions to fight for progressive change and elevating the political consciousness, Our Revolution will t ...[text shortened]... progressive leaders and elevate the political consciousness.

    https://ourrevolution.com/about/
    And it should start by eliminating the gerrymandering powering parties now.
  7. Subscriber karoly aczel
    Fortnite Kid
    18 Jun '17 22:27
    Originally posted by whodey
    I hear many on the left talk about "revolution". What does this mean to you? Is violence OK to achieve your goals or no?

    I also see people walk around proudly with Che Guevara T shirts. Who here identifies with the revolutionary?
    Covert revolutionaries are not going to out themselves. Heck, Freaky wont even say whether he votes or not.
  8. Subscriber karoly aczel
    Fortnite Kid
    18 Jun '17 22:30 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Che Guevara seems to be the universal symbol for left wing revolution.

    Does he appeal to you?

    http://www.dazeddigital.com/fashion/article/32208/1/how-the-che-guevara-t-shirt-became-a-global-phenomenon
    No. The people I know who wear that logo prolly don't know anything more than "Che Guevara" and not anything else. Doubt they would know
    anything about Cuba

    As for myself, nothing less than classic mens fashion will do. My clothes don't have any ads thanks ...
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    18 Jun '17 23:44
    Originally posted by whodey
    I hear many on the left talk about "revolution". What does this mean to you? Is violence OK to achieve your goals or no?

    I also see people walk around proudly with Che Guevara T shirts. Who here identifies with the revolutionary?
    wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution
  10. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    19 Jun '17 04:18
    Originally posted by whodey
    I hear many on the left talk about "revolution". What does this mean to you? Is violence OK to achieve your goals or no?

    I also see people walk around proudly with Che Guevara T shirts. Who here identifies with the revolutionary?
    People who wear Che Guevera T-shirts obviously didn't quite understand the man's opposition to free market profiteering (and low-wage jobs).

    Revolution can mean 2 things:
    Actively changing the political situation (which can be violent or not) or the synthesis automatically reached by the friction between the thesis and the antithesis (dialectical materialism... for the real commies out there: hasta la victoria siempre!!!!).

    Communism isn't an alternative to capitalism; it's what capitalism will evolve into.
    The more corned the capitalists (or current power / resource holders) are, the more aggressive they react to change. Hence that revolution / social change always has some violence in it.
  11. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    19 Jun '17 06:23
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    ...Communism isn't an alternative to capitalism; it's what capitalism will evolve into.
    The more corned the capitalists (or current power / resource holders) are, the more aggressive they react to change. Hence that revolution / social change always has some violence in it.
    If communism is the natural evolution of everything can it be democratic in nature?
  12. 19 Jun '17 06:32
    Originally posted by kmax87
    If communism is the natural evolution of everything can it be democratic in nature?
    Marx opposed democracy because he thought that it was just another tool for the capitalists to oppress and placate the masses. Marx predated the rise of Labour in the U.K. and the New Deal, so at least in the 19th Century there was a grain of truth to this sentiment.

    Of course, the ideological battle between social-democracy and communism was decisively won more than 50 years ago, but a few stubborn guerrillas refuse to put down their arms.
  13. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    19 Jun '17 07:07
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Marx opposed democracy because he thought that it was just another tool for the capitalists to oppress and placate the masses. Marx predated the rise of Labour in the U.K. and the New Deal, so at least in the 19th Century there was a grain of truth to this sentiment.

    Of course, the ideological battle between social-democracy and communism was decisively won more than 50 years ago, but a few stubborn guerrillas refuse to put down their arms.
    Why I asked is, what happens if the system that follows capitalism is not 'better' and the communal/social society if that indeed is the soviety that forms after capitalism is junked, is not fairer or more equitable than the system it displaced, will that society undergo a continuous cycle of revolution until a stable enduring communist/socialist system is finally formed?
  14. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    19 Jun '17 10:36
    Originally posted by kmax87
    If communism is the natural evolution of everything can it be democratic in nature?
    It's not the natural evolution of everything. Only capitalism.
  15. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    19 Jun '17 10:40
    Originally posted by kmax87
    Why I asked is, what happens if the system that follows capitalism is not 'better' and the communal/social society if that indeed is the soviety that forms after capitalism is junked, is not fairer or more equitable than the system it displaced, will that society undergo a continuous cycle of revolution until a stable enduring communist/socialist system is finally formed?
    Yes. Sort of.
    The only reason capitalism hasn't been eradicated yet is because water was added to the wine (placating the masses with consessions).

    If you look at other progressions of capitalism, say facism or state-capitalism as has occured in the 20th century, you see that it actually increases friction and changes even faster.