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  1. 23 Nov '11 00:04 / 1 edit
    Even after all of the attention Ron Paul receives, he remains in 5th place nationally amongst the Republican candidates.

    http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/11/gingrich-tops-new-cnnorc-poll/

    Gingrich 24%
    Romney 20%
    Cain 17%
    Perry 11%
    Paul 9%

    Republicans have watched closely all of the candidates including Ron Paul in multiple debates. Paul was very noticed as the fellow candidate who prodded Perry in Perry's gaffe of not remembering the third . . . Paul is very recognizable and well-known across the country.

    Massive numbers of Republicans have visited Paul's website. Paul has given many print and TV interviews, and so on. The Republicans know Ron Paul and his positions. Yet, the squeaky Ron is always fixed in 4th or 5th place nationally with his cult followers giving him the 6-12% he generally receives in national polls.

    His followers give the elitist response that the Republican rank-and-file are akin to the ignorant masses and stupid to not want Paul. Or his supporters continue in a tired way to deceptively blame to media for Paul's lack of success in the national polls. A red herring.

    While I like Ron Paul, the 76-year old will fade away after this election cycle.
  2. 23 Nov '11 02:40
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Even after all of the attention Ron Paul receives, he remains in 5th place nationally amongst the Republican candidates.

    http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/11/gingrich-tops-new-cnnorc-poll/

    Gingrich 24%
    Romney 20%
    Cain 17%
    Perry 11%
    Paul 9%

    Republicans have watched closely all of the candidates including Ron Paul in multiple debates. Paul wa ...[text shortened]... herring.

    While I like Ron Paul, the 76-year old will fade away after this election cycle.
    How much is THE MAN paying you to keep Ron Paul down?
  3. 23 Nov '11 13:03
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Even after all of the attention Ron Paul receives, he remains in 5th place nationally amongst the Republican candidates.

    http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/11/gingrich-tops-new-cnnorc-poll/

    Gingrich 24%
    Romney 20%
    Cain 17%
    Perry 11%
    Paul 9%

    Republicans have watched closely all of the candidates including Ron Paul in multiple debates. Paul wa ...[text shortened]... herring.

    While I like Ron Paul, the 76-year old will fade away after this election cycle.
    You hate all republicans. You are a leftist that hates anybody who wants to end the welfare state in this country. You would rather drive this country deep in debt until my children are in economic slavery just to save social programs that are not affordable.

    Moon, you are unwittingly promoting economic slavery. If I asked you to pick your preferred presidential candidate I suspect you would be gutless and name nobody. The truth is you only know who you don't like and havn't a clue as to what a real solution is.

    I'll bet you are one of those guys that doesn't like Obama much and refuses to defend him, but come election day you will vote for him with less enthusiasm. In other words, in the end you will support the status quo and bitch about it later while pretending you didn't vote for Obama. Pathetic!
  4. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    23 Nov '11 18:27
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    You hate all republicans. You are a leftist that hates anybody who wants to end the welfare state in this country. You would rather drive this country deep in debt until my children are in economic slavery just to save social programs that are not affordable.

    Moon, you are unwittingly promoting economic slavery. If I asked you to pick your preferred p ...[text shortened]... e status quo and bitch about it later while pretending you didn't vote for Obama. Pathetic!
    jesus dude. The republicans are the ones that have historically run deficits year after year. Regan/Bush/Bush Jr are the reason why you have a $15 trillion deficit.

    I can't believe americans are this ignorant to reality. Or perhaps just too lazy to, um, you know, read?
  5. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    23 Nov '11 18:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Even after all of the attention Ron Paul receives, he remains in 5th place nationally amongst the Republican candidates.

    http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/11/gingrich-tops-new-cnnorc-poll/

    Gingrich 24%
    Romney 20%
    Cain 17%
    Perry 11%
    Paul 9%

    Republicans have watched closely all of the candidates including Ron Paul in multiple debates. Paul wa herring.

    While I like Ron Paul, the 76-year old will fade away after this election cycle.
    In order to understand what Ron Paul says, you have to understand the issue he's speaking about. Most Republican voters haven't got a clue what the issue really is. Their only concept of the problems facing the US is that,

    "Governments spend too much and we need to cut stuff"

    As a candidate, if you go off that message and try to explain HOW you will do it, the voters get confused. they like simple messages like romney and Perry and even the sex assault dude put forward.

    Hell, all you need to know about how the republican party views republican voters is to watch the tv commericial romney put out this week in New Hampshire with the fake Obama quotes.

    I'd be insulted if i was a republican but in order to be insulted you have to understand what the insult is!
  6. 23 Nov '11 22:15
    Originally posted by dryhump
    How much is THE MAN paying you to keep Ron Paul down?
    Good one. That is hilarious. The boogey man is paying me.
  7. 23 Nov '11 22:37 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    You hate all republicans. You are a leftist that hates anybody who wants to end the welfare state in this country. You would rather drive this country deep in debt until my children are in economic slavery just to save social programs that are not affordable.

    Moon, you are unwittingly promoting economic slavery. If I asked you to pick your preferred p e status quo and bitch about it later while pretending you didn't vote for Obama. Pathetic!
    I enthusiastically support the President. Just bought an Obama*Biden t-shirt the other day. It will be four more years. And while the Republican side does not offer the solution, my top three favorite Republican candidates are Huntsman, Rino Rom, and Kook Paul. I like Huntsman the best.

    It is vital to our freedom as the working little guy to re-elect the President at least for the reason of appointments to the federal judiciary.

    My comments above in the previous post about Paul are merely objective observations about how the Republican rank-and-file feel about Paul, and not how I feel. I objectively observe that Paul will never secure the Republican nomination and to think otherwise is a pipe dream and not very realistic. Instead, try to make a difference and vote for a viable candidate who most closely agrees with your positions. As for me, I think the libertarian or anarchy thoughts are a step backward that favor the corrupt wealthy property owner. We need active federal government. Otherwise the average working Joe gets screwed.

    I agree with Paul on legalizing drugs, prostitution, and his support of social freedoms in general, but strongly disagree with his unfounded limited government and national security views. I will go with the last 80 years of Supreme Court jurisprudence over Paul's idiotic characterization of the Constitution any day. Moreover, I am much more of a hawk and think it economically and humanely beneficial for the US to actively influence the world. For example, I thought the President did a great job leading our participation in the Libya conflict, and the outcome will benefit the US.

    Also, Paul can be hypocritical. For example, he wants to impose his religious fundamentalist view that life begins at conception and have the federal government force state governments to outlaw all abortion.

    Lastly, I am a party guy. Candidates come and go. The party remains. The Democrat party is much more aligned with my views than the Republican party. Always has been. I am a strong supporter of the Democrat party. Vote straight ticket each and every election. The best for my family and our country.

    As for the Republican party, I do dislike how the Republican party is controlled by social conservatives and religious fundamentalists who believe the Earth has only been here 6000 years and want a theocracy to impose their religious values. I would rather see a return to when the Rockefeller country-club Republican types controlled the Republican party. While not the greatest, that would be better than extreme right-wingers dominating the Republican party as they do now.
  8. 23 Nov '11 22:57
    Originally posted by uzless
    jesus dude. The republicans are the ones that have historically run deficits year after year. Regan/Bush/Bush Jr are the reason why you have a $15 trillion deficit.

    I can't believe americans are this ignorant to reality. Or perhaps just too lazy to, um, you know, read?
    What the heck are you smoking?
    It is both major political parties that are to blame, not just one. I think it is you who are ignorant to reality.
  9. 23 Nov '11 23:06
    Originally posted by moon1969
    I enthusiastically support the President. Just bought an Obama*Biden t-shirt the other day. It will be four more years. And while the Republican side does not offer the solution, my top three favorite Republican candidates are Huntsman, Rino Rom, and Kook Paul. I like Huntsman the best.

    It is vital to our freedom as the working little guy to re-elect ...[text shortened]... that would be better than extreme right-wingers dominating the Republican party as they do now.
    Obama is a DINO. He is essentially a Bush clone. Libya didn't do anything to us. In fact, they were being very good to us until Obama and NATO decided to stab Gaddafi in the back while ignoring the killing of civilians elsewhere. Obama is also going along with pre war sanctions against Iran. Almost everything about Obama is like Bush.

    I'm still trying to see a difference between Obama and Romney.
    Looks like you support a republican and don't know it.

    You are seriously brainwashed into thinking wars are good even though it drives us deeper into debt. You clearly are too ignorant to see you are putting Americans into economic slavery. Pathetic!
  10. 23 Nov '11 23:36
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Obama is a DINO. He is essentially a Bush clone. Libya didn't do anything to us. In fact, they were being very good to us until Obama and NATO decided to stab Gaddafi in the back while ignoring the killing of civilians elsewhere. Obama is also going along with pre war sanctions against Iran. Almost everything about Obama is like Bush.

    I'm still trying ...[text shortened]... ou clearly are too ignorant to see you are putting Americans into economic slavery. Pathetic!
    We will make more $ in return than the $1 billion we spent in Libya. Plus, the crimes against humanity by Qhadafi have been stopped.

    Moreover, moving to libertarian or anarchist views would further our economic slavery, not abate it.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    24 Nov '11 00:18
    Originally posted by moon1969
    We will make more $ in return than the $1 billion we spent in Libya. Plus, the crimes against humanity by Qhadafi have been stopped.

    Moreover, moving to libertarian or anarchist views would further our economic slavery, not abate it.
    I'm sure by that logic we'll make even more money by taking sides in the coming Libyan civil war. And they'll be plenty of Crimes against Humanity in that one they we can crow about ending if and when it does end.
  12. 24 Nov '11 01:10 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I'm sure by that logic we'll make even more money by taking sides in the coming Libyan civil war. And they'll be plenty of Crimes against Humanity in that one they we can crow about ending if and when it does end.
    Legitimate questions you raise. Keep in mind we only spent $1 billion as compared to the $ trillions spent in Iraq and Afghanistan. In Libya, we helped end the civil war, and there is no foregone conclusion that another will rise.

    As for $ return, lower energy prices alone because of a more stable Libya and region will provide more than $1 billion in increased revenue to the US. And there are other economic benefits.

    I am optimistic that cooler heads will prevail in Libya after the transition. The people are primarily secular and want peace, freedom, and democracy. And while the weakly-led rebels during the civil war came across as animals at times, you have to think about the 40 years of massive opression they experienced. Not an excuse, just context.

    And as for crimes against humanity, Qhadafi was imprisoning and torturing massive numbers of people before the civil war, and then killing massive numbers of people with aircraft and tanks during the rebellion. It was a slaughter. The people were armed at most with small weapons typically knives and pistols and a few rifles.

    It is unlikely that the new government will commit atrocities on such a scale as Qhadafi did in the civil unrest and before.

    ----

    In general, it is possible to spend tax $ and receive a nice return on investment for the US.
  13. 24 Nov '11 01:13
    Originally posted by uzless
    jesus dude. The republicans are the ones that have historically run deficits year after year. Regan/Bush/Bush Jr are the reason why you have a $15 trillion deficit.

    I can't believe americans are this ignorant to reality. Or perhaps just too lazy to, um, you know, read?
    The deficits in the Bush years are pretty comparable to those of the Clinton era. Most of the debt accumulated from 1980 to 2008 (28 years) with a variety of Presidents and Congresses. The last $5 trillion accumulated since 2008 (3 years).
  14. 24 Nov '11 01:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The deficits in the Bush years are pretty comparable to those of the Clinton era. Most of the debt accumulated from 1980 to 2008 (28 years) with a variety of Presidents and Congresses. The last $5 trillion accumulated since 2008 (3 years).
    I remember Clinton harping about the deficit and making reducing it and the debt a priority. The Republicans scoffed and said the debt was a red herring, and that we would just simply grow out of the debt. Maybe so.

    But it is in good economic times when revenue is high is when the deficit and debt should be reduced. In contrast, in bad economic times with high unemployment as now, cutting spending actually increases the deficit and debt. Basic economics. Does no good.

    The CBO estimates that were it not for the stimulus spending, unemployment would now be at 12% instead of 9%, and thus revenue would be much less.

    We need more stimulus. Stimilus spending in the right way to build massive infrastructure provides jobs now and infrastructure for our companies and country to use for a generation and more for expansion and growth. More revenue. Greater quality of life for all.

    As for the debt incurred the last 3 years, the majority of economists and American people agree that what Bush put in place including unfunded wars to the unfunded prescription drug program to the massive tax cuts on the top 1%, and so on, and with leaving the economy and financial sector in ruins, were big driving forces for the debt the last three years. Bush and the Republicans left our government's hands with not many feasible options. As indicated, massive stimulus spending on infrastructure would help. In contrast, massive cuts in spending would only further deepen our economic recession and debt. Letting the Bush temporary tax cuts on the top 1% expire would help.
  15. 24 Nov '11 04:26
    Originally posted by moon1969
    We will make more $ in return than the $1 billion we spent in Libya. Plus, the crimes against humanity by Qhadafi have been stopped.

    Moreover, moving to libertarian or anarchist views would further our economic slavery, not abate it.
    How are we going to make more money than the $ we spent destroying wealth in Libya by bombing it? From the central bank that was installed there? That might be the case for some people, but not "we". You need to know who "we" and "they" is. Just because some people in this country will benefit from it does not mean you will.
    Crimes against humanity? Who doesn't commit crimes against humanity? Take a look around the world.

    Ron Paul is for monetary reform and he will push to pass his (very popular) legislation to audit the Federal Reserve System. That is the source of much of the economic slavery. That alone will improve your standard of living. Our central banking system is the parasite that is sucking us dry. You are fighting the guy that will help you the most.