Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    20 May '18 10:32
    This is pointless. School shootings in America are always preceded by "another". And yet you do nothing. Americans will demand gun control, The NRA and conservatives will accuse them of politicizing a tragedy (because when someone falls into a hole they don't immediately demand the city hall to fix it, they don't want to politicize )

    The only way you will ever get anything done about this is if you absolutely demand a litmus test of whoever you're voting. Took NRA money? You don't get a vote. Don't promise to support gun legislation from day one of getting into office? You don't get a vote.

    And freakin make it illegal for senators to get lobbying jobs after they retire in the industries they were meant to regulate. What the hell is wrong with you.
  2. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    20 May '18 13:081 edit
    Thoughts and prayers. How could i have forgotten.

    Have some thoughts and prayers. Have a thousand thoughts and prayers. Nay, ten thousand. You know what? Even though i will have to liquidate my thoughts and prayers savings account, have a million thoughts and prayers.


    Now you don't have to actually do anything. These thoughts and prayers should be enough.
  3. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    20 May '18 23:02
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/20/santa-fe-shooting-suspect-dimitrios-pagourtzis-motive

    "Mother of victim says her daughter rejected Santa Fe suspect's advances."

    "One of the students killed in the Santa Fe school shooting reportedly turned down
    romantic advances from Dimitrios Pagourtzis, the suspect in the deaths of 10 people
    and wounding of at least another 10.

    Shana Fisher’s mother, Sadie Rodriguez, told the Associated Press Shana “finally stood
    up to him and embarrassed him”. Speaking to the Los Angeles Times, Rodriguez said:
    “A week later he opens fire on everyone he didn’t like.”"

    Reportedly, a 17 year old male loses face because his advances are turned down by a girl.
    Unable to handle rejection, he allegedly 'gets even' by shooting her and many others.
    If so, that's another case of 'toxic masculinity'.
  4. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    20 May '18 23:09
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    This is pointless. School shootings in America are always preceded by "another". And yet you do nothing. Americans will demand gun control, The NRA and conservatives will accuse them of politicizing a tragedy (because when someone falls into a hole they don't immediately demand the city hall to fix it, they don't want to politicize )

    The only way you w ...[text shortened]... fter they retire in the industries they were meant to regulate. What the hell is wrong with you.
    No1Marauder claims that surveys show most Americans approve of a viable independent Palestinian state,
    not a pathetic Bantustan under Israel's perpetual domination. If so, that approval never has come
    close to translating into enough American politicians supporting that kind of Palestinian state.
    The Israeli lobby has a fearsome reputation in US politics.

    Surveys have shown that most Americans approve of stricter gun control laws.
    But mos American politicians seem nearly as terrified of the National Rifle Association (NRA)
    as they are of the Israeli lobby.

    What's the over / under betting line on the next school shooting in the USA?
    I suspect that another will happen before the end of 2018. Who will bet against it?
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    40045
    20 May '18 23:251 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    No1Marauder claims that surveys show most Americans approve of a viable independent Palestinian state,
    not a pathetic Bantustan under Israel's perpetual domination. If so, that approval never has come
    close to translating into enough American politicians supporting that kind of Palestinian state.
    The Israeli lobby has a fearsome reputation in US polit ...[text shortened]... n the USA?
    I suspect that another will happen before the end of 2018. Who will bet against it?
    Duchy: If so, that approval never has come close to translating into enough American politicians supporting that kind of Palestinian state.

    Another falsehood. From the Democratic Party's 2016 platform:

    We will continue to work toward a two-state solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict negotiated directly by the parties that guarantees Israel’s future as a secure and democratic Jewish state with recognized borders and provides the Palestinians with independence, sovereignty, and dignity. While Jerusalem is a matter for final status negotiations, it should remain the capital of Israel, an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths. Israelis deserve security, recognition, and a normal life free from terror and incitement. Palestinians should be free to govern themselves in their own viable state, in peace and dignity.
  6. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    20 May '18 23:383 edits
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Duchy: If so, that approval never has come close to translating into enough American politicians supporting that kind of Palestinian state.

    Another falsehood. From the Democratic Party's 2016 platform:

    [b]We will continue to work toward a two-state solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict negotiated directly by the parties that guarantees Isr ...[text shortened]... tinians should be free to govern themselves in their own viable state, in peace and dignity.
    [/b]
    No1Marauder keeps disingenuously conflating some (token) rhetoric with effective political action.
    As I pointed out about gun control, surveys and rhetoric fail to translate into effective political action.

    Which major Democratic politicians have shown any willingness to take significant political risks
    on behalf of the Palestinians in opposing Israel and the USA's lavish support of Israel?
    Indeed, I suspect that No1Marauder would be quick to cite the existence of any political
    risks to excuse the silence (at best) of pro-Israeli Democratic politicians like Hillary Clinton.

    If he were not so hypocritical, No1Marauder might as well cite the Republican Party's
    official rhetoric condemning racism and argue that it proves that Republican politicians
    have been doing their utmost to oppose racism.

    I can name a few American politicians (Jimmy Carter, Paul Findley, Pete McCloskey)
    who have condemned Israel's apartheid-like racism or the Israeli lobby in the USA,
    but their criticisms came mostly, if not entirely, only after their political careers were over.

    Can No1Marauder name any major active American politicians who declare their support
    for reducing or even eliminating the USA's lavish military and economic aid to Israel?
    Can No1Marauder even name any major active American politicians who are ready to
    condemn the Israeli lobby (AIPAC) in public? Can No1Marauder quote such condemnations?
  7. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 May '18 02:521 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/20/santa-fe-shooting-suspect-dimitrios-pagourtzis-motive

    "Mother of victim says her daughter rejected Santa Fe suspect's advances."

    "One of the students killed in the Santa Fe school shooting reportedly turned down
    romantic advances from Dimitrios Pagourtzis, the suspect in the deaths of 10 people
    and ...[text shortened]... 'gets even' by shooting her and many others.
    If so, that's another case of 'toxic masculinity'.
    Reportedly, according to her father, Shana Fisher (age 16) said two weeks ago that
    Dimitrios Pagourtzis had threatened to kill her after she rejected his demands to date her.
    Then he singled her out as his primary target, shooting her so many times that her face
    (reportedly) became unrecognizable.

    If true, then misogyny may have been a part of the alleged murderer's motives.
  8. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    21 May '18 16:591 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Reportedly, according to her father, Shana Fisher (age 16) said two weeks ago that
    Dimitrios Pagourtzis had threatened to kill her after she rejected his demands to date her.
    Then he singled her out as his primary target, shooting her so many times that her face
    (reportedly) became unrecognizable.

    If true, then misogyny may have been a part of the alleged murderer's motives.
    Who the fuk cares about the shooter's motives. This mass shooter was rejected by a girl, the other had a history of violence, another was bullied and wanted revenge. That's not important. The most important thing right now is for the american people to come together, as a nation, and declare loud an clear that taking NRA money is political suicide. For gun owners and people that never held a gun in their lives to say to their politicians "you work for us, not for the NRA".

    You can deal with a deranged individual a lot easier if he doesn't have easy access to death sticks and you can pass gun laws (that the vast majority of Americans want) a lot easier without NRA whores blocking them.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    40045
    21 May '18 17:122 edits
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    No1Marauder keeps disingenuously conflating some (token) rhetoric with effective political action.
    As I pointed out about gun control, surveys and rhetoric fail to translate into effective political action.

    Which major Democratic politicians have shown any willingness to take significant political risks
    on behalf of the Palestinians in opposing Isra ...[text shortened]... eady to
    condemn the Israeli lobby (AIPAC) in public? Can No1Marauder quote such condemnations?
    This is an improper thread to continue this discussion in, but your false claim was that "If so, that approval never has come close to translating into enough American politicians supporting that kind of Palestinian state."

    Your attempt to move the goalposts when yet again proven wrong is intellectually dishonest. Most American politicians, like most Americans period, support an equitable, two State solution.
  10. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 May '18 19:53
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    Who the fuk cares about the shooter's motives. This mass shooter was rejected by a girl, the other had a history of violence, another was bullied and wanted revenge. That's not important. The most important thing right now is for the american people to come together, as a nation, and declare loud an clear that taking NRA money is political suicide. For gun ...[text shortened]... n laws (that the vast majority of Americans want) a lot easier without NRA whores blocking them.
    "Who the fuk cares about the shooter's motives..."
    --Zahlanzi

    Attempting to understand the motives does NOT mean excusing the crimes.
  11. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    22691
    21 May '18 20:13
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Who the fuk cares about the shooter's motives..."
    --Zahlanzi

    Attempting to understand the motives does NOT mean excusing the crimes.
    What part of "crazy mixed up kid with easy access to a gun" is so difficult for Duchess64 to understand?

    I doubt the kid even knows what the word misogyny means. He was an embittered loser who took advantage of easy access to deadly weaponry.

    And now...more families are eternally devastated. 😠
  12. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 May '18 20:142 edits
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    This is an improper thread to continue this discussion in, but your false claim was that "If so, that approval never has come close to translating into enough American politicians supporting that kind of Palestinian state."

    Your attempt to move the goalposts when yet again proven wrong is intellectually dishonest. Most American politicians, like most Americans period, support an equitable, two State solution.
    The troll No1Marauder apparently hates me more than he professes to oppose Israel's oppression of the Palestinians.

    "Most American politicians, like most Americans period, support an equitable, two State solution."
    --No1Marauder

    As an ignorant ethnocentric American (who apparently wants to believe that the USA has
    been consistently 'even-handed' in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict) No1Marauder's determined
    to believe that what the USA has offered to the Palestinians is an 'equitable solution'.
    No survey of ignorant Americans or of American politicians (typically afraid of the Israeli lobby)
    has the divine right to determine what's 'equitable' for the Palestinians.

    What Israel and the USA offer to the Palestinians is less 'equitable' than what the UK
    offered to the Irish in the 1921 Anglo-Irish Treaty (an Irish Free State in 26 of 32 counties),
    which No1Marauder (the only person to use the term 'ACLE' ) has long condemned as unjust.

    Real Palestinians (whom No1Marauder never has met) know that the USA has long been
    "Israel's lawyer" (to quote Rashid Khalidi) and it's too late for any 'equitable solution'.
    Many Palestinians might still grudgingly accept the remnants of independent statehood
    on offer ONLY because it's less intolerable than the increasingly unbearable status quo.
    But hardly any educated Palestinian would truly believe that this 'solution' is equitable.

    Some corrupt Palestinian politicians (apparently bought by Western money) may mouth
    the words that the USA or even Israel demand to hear, just like some American 'Indian'
    chiefs once mouthed similar words and signed similar 'equitable' peace treaties with the USA.
    Like other white Americans then or now, No1Marauder may like to pretend that most
    American 'Indians' regarded their chiefs' treaties with the US government as 'equitable'.

    As many critics (Palestinian and not) have pointed out, the 'two state solution' fails to
    address sufficiently the plight of the refugees of 1948, who have longed to return to their
    homes in what's now parts of the state of Israel. And it fails to address to continuing
    racist oppression of the Palestinians who are legally (Arab) citizens of Israel.

    Although No1Marauder's criticisms of Israel may be better than nothing in a US political context,
    real Palestinians should know that No1Marauder's far from being a sincere well-informed
    friend of the Palestinians, who knows the realities of their lives. Despite all of his political
    naiveté, at least Sonhouse has been a friend of some Palestinians in real life.

    P.S. Thanks to my usual trolls for 'thumbing down' this post in less time than would be needed to read it.
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 May '18 20:222 edits
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    What part of "crazy mixed up kid with easy access to a gun" is so difficult for Duchess64 to understand?

    I doubt the kid even knows what the word misogyny means. He was an embittered loser who took advantage of easy access to deadly weaponry.

    And now...more families are eternally devastated. 😠
    "What part of "crazy mixed up kid ..."
    --Wolfe63

    Has Wolfe63 already completed his psychiatric evaluation of the suspect?
    Will Wolfe63 testify as an expert witness about the defendant's supposed insanity?
    Would Wolfe63 be so quick to argue for a psychiatric defense if the suspect were a Muslim?

    "I doubt the kid even knows what the word misogyny means ..."
    --Wolfe63

    His actions, not his vocabulary, would be what define misogyny in this case.
    Does Wolfe63 believe that when a young man (age 17) allegedly murders a young woman (age 16)
    because she rejected his romantic or sexual advances is no sign of any hatred of women?
  14. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    22691
    21 May '18 20:57
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "What part of "crazy mixed up kid ..."
    --Wolfe63

    Has Wolfe63 already completed his psychiatric evaluation of the suspect?
    Will Wolfe63 testify as an expert witness about the defendant's supposed insanity?
    Would Wolfe63 be so quick to argue for a psychiatric defense if the suspect were a Muslim?

    "I doubt the kid even knows what the word misogyny ...[text shortened]... age 16)
    because she rejected his romantic or sexual advances is no sign of any hatred of women?
    Once again...the know-it-all-pretend betrays her inner truths. Following the weird trail of bread crumbs left when she imparts her version of quantum probability:

    The kid is white and American - He's evil.
    The kid killed a young girl - He's a misogynist.
    The kid hasn't stated he's for Palestinians - He's a racist.

    My Lord...enough already! This is a tragedy of the first order.

    Get a grip on the real issues at hand...instead of this constant accusatory harangue.

    And yes...I do have a degree with psychiatry as majority component.
  15. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 May '18 21:03
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    Once again...the know-it-all-pretend betrays her inner truths. Following the weird trail of bread crumbs left when she imparts her version of quantum probability:

    The kid is white and American - He's evil.
    The kid killed a young girl - He's a misogynist.
    The kid hasn't stated he's for Palestinians - He's a racist.

    My Lord...enough already! This is ...[text shortened]... tant accusatory harangue.

    And yes...I do have a degree with psychiatry as majority component.
    Again, the lying racist troll Wolfe63 eagerly stuffs words into my mouth.
    Can Wolfe63 QUOTE anything that I allegedly wrote matching his words?

    "I do have a degree with psychiatry as majority component."
    --Wolfe63

    Even if that were true (which I doubt), Wolfe63 never has examined the suspect in person,
    and so is unqualified to make any definitive evaluation of his mental health.

    How does the self-proclaimed 'psychiatrist' Wolfe63 assess himself being a pathological liar?
Back to Top