Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membervivify
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    17 Oct '18 14:532 edits
    Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea? The "Supreme Leader" has a well-known history of brutality against his own people and his own family. N. Korea's human rights violations are not in dispute.

    Yet, the world embraced N. Korea, and celebrations were high when they joined the Winter Olympics.

    However, people on this site want zero diplomacy regarding Saudi Arabia; hanging was even suggested.

    What's the difference in the way these two are regarded? Both nations are essentially run by a "Supreme Leader" known for jailing and killing members of his own family, as well as any dissidents.

    Before anyone mentions Yemen, Qatar or any other proxy wars, it should be pointed out that this hasn't been a tipping point for people (on this site or elsewhere) regarding cutting ties with SA; the murder of a reporter was.
  2. Subscribersonhouseonline
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    17 Oct '18 14:58
    @vivify said
    Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea? The "Supreme Leader" has a well-known history of brutality against his own people and his own family. N. Korea's human rights violations are not in dispute.

    Yet, the world embraced N. Korea, and celebrations were high when they joined the Winter Olympics.

    However, people on this site want zero ...[text shortened]... for people (on this site or elsewhere) regarding cutting ties with SA; the murder of a reporter was.
    But Trump says we jeopardize that 110 BILLION dollar military deal with SA but the actual number is maybe half that because SA can't AFFORD the whole deal. Even the half number is not sure. And 500,000 jobs? What a crock of shyte.
    Trump is interested in one thing and one thing only. Preservation and expansion of his personal power base and screw everyone who gets in his way.
  3. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    17 Oct '18 15:13
    @vivify said
    Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea? The "Supreme Leader" has a well-known history of brutality against his own people and his own family. N. Korea's human rights violations are not in dispute.

    Yet, the world embraced N. Korea, and celebrations were high when they joined the Winter Olympics.

    However, people on this site want zero ...[text shortened]... for people (on this site or elsewhere) regarding cutting ties with SA; the murder of a reporter was.
    Or Putin for that matter. Both he and Jong-Un sent assassins to kill people. Both were on the news but nobody cared.
  4. Subscribersonhouseonline
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    17 Oct '18 15:53
    @athousandyoung said
    Or Putin for that matter. Both he and Jong-Un sent assassins to kill people. Both were on the news but nobody cared.
    Welcome to the 21st century.
  5. Zugzwang
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    17 Oct '18 17:593 edits
    @vivify said
    Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea? The "Supreme Leader" has a well-known history of brutality against his own people and his own family. N. Korea's human rights violations are not in dispute.

    Yet, the world embraced N. Korea, and celebrations were high when they joined the Winter Olympics.

    However, people on this site want zero ...[text shortened]... for people (on this site or elsewhere) regarding cutting ties with SA; the murder of a reporter was.
    "How far will the ignorant troll Vivify go in his new calling as apologist or propagandist for Saudi Arabia?"
    --Duchess64 (13 October 2018)

    "Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea?"
    --Vivify

    False or misleading (at best) premise by Vivify.
    President Trump does NOT now seem outraged by human right abuses in
    Saudi Arabia or the DPRK (North Korea). So it would be wrong for Vivify to claim
    that President Trump ('the leader of the free world' ) is 'far more outraged over
    SA than North Korea' (to quote Vivify).

    "N. Korea's human rights violations are not in dispute."
    --Vivify

    Some of them are. Some sensationalist claims by North Korean defectors seem
    exaggerated or fabricated, though Vivify seems gullible enough to swallow them
    all without question.

    "...the world embraced N. Korea."
    --Vivify

    Misleading again (at best). 'The world' has embraced the hope of the DPRK becoming
    less likely to use nuclear weapons to attack other countries, NOT the belief that
    the DPRK regime's supposedly wonderful in all its domestic policies.

    Vivify prefers to ignore a major reason why the USA and the UK should be more
    motivated to criticize Saudi Arabia than the DPRK. There's far from any equivalence
    in how Western powers treat Saudi Arabia (as a favored client state) compared to
    how they treat the DPRK (as a pariah to be isolated). The USA and UK already
    have extremely strict sanctions against the DPRK. In contrast, Saudi Arabia's war
    machine is lavishly supplied and supported by the USA and UK. Therefore, the
    USA and UK have much more influence (and responsibility) over Saudi Arabia.

    I suspect that the desperate troll Vivify will resort to ever increasing nonsense
    in order to avoid conceding his errors or 'questionable morals' (as Ash has put it).
  6. Zugzwang
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    17 Oct '18 18:011 edit
    @athousandyoung said
    Or Putin for that matter. Both he and Jong-Un sent assassins to kill people. Both were on the news but nobody cared.
    (AThousandYoung replied to Vivify.)

    It's wrong for AThousandYoung to claim that 'nobody cared' about the evident
    assassinations (attempted or successful) in the UK (by Russia) and Malaysia (by the DPRK).
    The governments of the UK and Malaysia certainly have acted like they do object.

    The USA already has sanctions against both Russia and the DPRK (North Korea).
    In contrast, the USA continues to be the major supplier and supporter of Saudi Arabia's military.
  7. Standard membervivify
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    17 Oct '18 18:16
    @duchess64 said
    "How far will the ignorant troll Vivify go in his new calling as apologist or propagandist for Saudi Arabia?"
    --Duchess64 (13 October 2018)

    "Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea?"
    --Vivify

    False or misleading (at best) premise by Vivify.
    President Trump does NOT now seem outraged by human right abuses in
    Saudi Arabia or the DPRK (North Korea).
    Thread after thread, Duchess excels at showing off her terrible reading comprehension. No one mentioned Trump yet she's attacking me for statements no one made about Trump.

    Duchess continues embarrassing herself.
  8. Zugzwang
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    17 Oct '18 18:263 edits
    @vivify said
    Thread after thread, Duchess excels at showing off her terrible reading comprehension. No one mentioned Trump yet she's attacking me for statements no one made about Trump.

    Duchess continues embarrassing herself.
    "No one mentioned Trump yet ..."
    --Vivify

    FALSE. The troll Vivify blatantly lies again about this forum.

    In fact, Vivify recently created the thread "Trump threatens Saudi Arabia".
    Vivify attacked President Trump for daring to 'threaten' (hold responsible) Saudi Arabia.
    Now the lying troll Vivify may prefer to pretend what was written there does NOT exist.

    https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/trump-threatens-saudi-arabia.178857

    "If you [Vivify] think that murder should be swept under the rug for the sake of the
    U.S's "only Muslim ally" (I'm cringing even writing that), I'm afraid it's you with the
    questionable morals."
    --Ash (to Vivify)

    Based upon all that he's said so far, Vivify apparently does believe that.

    I doubt that Saudi Arabia would be interested in paying Vivify for his propaganda services.
    Vivify's certainly qualified as a shameless liar, yet I suspect that Saudi Arabia would
    prefer someone who could come up with lies that are less easily proven to be lies.

    I suspect that the desperate troll Vivify will resort to ever increasing nonsense
    in order to avoid conceding his errors or 'questionable morals' (as Ash has put it)
  9. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    17 Oct '18 18:53
    @duchess64 said
    The troll .. troll .

    'questionable morals'
    Do you think anyone reads your posts in their entirety?
  10. Zugzwang
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    17 Oct '18 18:554 edits
    @wolfgang59 said
    Do you think anyone reads your posts in their entirety?
    The lying troll Wolfgang59 (who has spewed blatant lies to attack me) seems
    eager to ride to the rescue of the lying troll Vivify, his projected ally.
    Wolfgang59 trolls me because he presumably hopes that no one will read my posts.

    "Do you think anyone reads your posts in their entirety?"
    --Wolfgang59 (to Duchess64)

    No1Marauder implied that he just did so.

    "This is a good post [by Duchess64] though it would be better without the personal attacks.
    Duchy raises very valid points here."
    --No1Marauder
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    17 Oct '18 19:05
    @duchess64 said
    "How far will the ignorant troll Vivify go in his new calling as apologist or propagandist for Saudi Arabia?"
    --Duchess64 (13 October 2018)

    "Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea?"
    --Vivify

    False or misleading (at best) premise by Vivify.
    President Trump does NOT now seem outraged by human right abuses in
    Saudi Arabia or the DPR ...[text shortened]... asing nonsense
    in order to avoid conceding his errors or 'questionable morals' (as Ash has put it).
    This is a good post though it would be better without the personal attacks.

    Duchy raises very valid points here.
  12. Zugzwang
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    17 Oct '18 19:284 edits
    @no1marauder said
    This is a good post though it would be better without the personal attacks.

    Duchy raises very valid points here.
    Whenever I cite facts to point out some of the many false or misleading statements by
    No1Marauder (in addition to Vivify's in this thread), he likes to dismiss them as 'personal attacks'.

    Contrary to what No1Marauder wrongly claims or insinuates, my comments are
    criticisms about what Vivify writes, NOT his personal conduct of life.

    In the interest of clarity, my comment about Vivify being gullible enough to swallow
    North Korean defectors' sensationalist claims is based upon my dispute with him
    in a thread where Vivify accepted and promoted sensationalist claims by one
    North Korean defector even after I cited evidence that many other North Korean
    defectors regard that one as dishonest, fabricating or exaggerating (at best)
    abuses in order to please South Korean propaganda or appeal to gullible Westerners.
  13. Zugzwang
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    17 Oct '18 19:35
    @vivify said
    Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea? The "Supreme Leader" has a well-known history of brutality against his own people and his own family. N. Korea's human rights violations are not in dispute.

    Yet, the world embraced N. Korea, and celebrations were high when they joined the Winter Olympics.

    However, people on this site want zero ...[text shortened]... for people (on this site or elsewhere) regarding cutting ties with SA; the murder of a reporter was.
    "Why is it that the world seems far more outraged over SA than N. Korea?"
    --Vivify

    FALSE (premise). Are not sanctions a valid measure of 'outrage'?
    The USA and many other countries have long applied harsh sanctions toward the DPRK (North Korea).
    Has the USA yet even started applying any sanctions toward Saudi Arabia?
    Do any other countries apply any sanctions toward Saudi Arabia?
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    17 Oct '18 19:57
    @duchess64 said
    Whenever I cite facts to point out some of the many false or misleading statements by
    No1Marauder (in addition to Vivify's in this thread), he likes to dismiss them as 'personal attacks'.

    Contrary to what No1Marauder wrongly claims or insinuates, my comments are
    criticisms about what Vivify writes, NOT his personal conduct of life.

    In the interest of clarity, my com ...[text shortened]... ating (at best)
    abuses in order to please South Korean propaganda or appeal to gullible Westerners.
    Calling another poster a "shameless liar" and a "desperate troll" is a personal attack whether you want to admit it or not.

    Your inclusion of such unnecessary venom distracts from an otherwise excellent rebuttal of the OP.
  15. Zugzwang
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    17 Oct '18 20:166 edits
    @no1marauder said
    Calling another poster a "shameless liar" and a "desperate troll" is a personal attack whether you want to admit it or not.

    Your inclusion of such unnecessary venom distracts from an otherwise excellent rebuttal of the OP.
    The disingenuous No1Marauder makes a false or misleading comment, putting words into my mouth.

    "This is a good post though it would be better without the personal attacks.
    Duchy raises very valid points here."
    --No1Marauder (replying to Duchess64's post on page 1, post 5)

    "Calling another poster a "shameless liar"..,"
    --No1Marauder

    In fact, I did NOT call Vivify a 'shameless liar' in THAT post (#5) that No1Marauder praised.
    Can No1Marauder quote where in THAT post I allegedly did that?

    Based upon his ample lies, I have called Vivify a 'shameless liar' in some OTHER posts.
    If No1Marauder wants to make ALL OTHER posts the subject, then I would point out
    that Vivify has long record of hurling insults and lies (which No1Marauder may condone) at me.
    As I recall, No1Marauder himself has condemned Vivify for being dishonest or lying,
    so No1Marauder hypocritically objects only when I do it rather than he does it himself.

    I would add that it's accurate for me to describe Vivify as a 'desperate troll'
    because he apparently created this new thread as a diversion from the main
    thread "Trump threatens Saudi Arabia' that he himself recently created, perhaps
    hoping that what was written there would become less noticeable.

    I suspect that Vivify's desperate because I doubt that more than a few people
    (Metal Brain?) will be impressed by him being an apologist for the regime in Saudi Arabia.

    What Vivify and No1Marauder have in common is a fanatical zeal to do anything,
    such as hurling tireless insults and lies, rather than concede any significant error to me.
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