Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 25 Aug '10 09:23 / 1 edit
    It is reported that Jewish women are segregated in trains running trough Jerusalem in order to pander to the 'ultra-orthodox', whose fanaticism is akin to the muslim brand, and stems from the same source, the disordered imaginations of 'prophets' claiming to be the mouthpiece of Jehovah/Allah.
    Fortunately for the rest of us the former are not given to public demonstrations in the art of suicide bombing as are the latter.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7961486/Jerusalem-trains-to-be-divided-by-gender.html
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    25 Aug '10 11:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    It is reported that Jewish women are segregated in trains running trough Jerusalem in order to pander to the 'ultra-orthodox', whose fanaticism is akin to the muslim brand, and stems from the same source, the disordered imaginations of 'prophets' claiming to be the mouthpiece of Jehovah/Allah.
    Fortunately for the rest of us the former are not given ...[text shortened]... co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7961486/Jerusalem-trains-to-be-divided-by-gender.html
    You're reading this slightly wrong. Read the article a bit more closely.

    CityPass CEO Yair Naveh said the light rail is designed to serve everyone, and he saw no reason why every third or fourth carriage shouldn't be a "kosher car" to serve the needs of the ultra-Orthodox community.

    Nobody is segregated. Genders may be separated in one out of every 3 or 4 cars. Also, I'm not sure why you would assert that "Jewish women are segregated" when it is just as much the men who are segregated.

    As for the buses, the "segregation" is entirely voluntary. My mother was in Jerusalem in May and sat where she wanted to and nobody said anything.

    If you read the article, again, you'll see that it's voluntary:

    There have been cases of women who refused to move to the back of these buses being verbally and even physically abused.

    Yeah. There have been cases. It happens hundreds of times a day and a couple of times some idiot yelled at a woman. It is not a municipal rule or a bus company rule. It is the voluntary behavior of people who choose to behave that way.

    I could just as easily say "There have been cases on New York buses where people accidentally brushed another passenger and were verbally and even physically abused."

    I'm not going to sit here and tell you there's no "fanaticism" in the ultra-orthodox community. There is. The salient difference is that the ultra-orthodox believe in doing what they do voluntarily; not in forcing everyone else to behave like they do.
  3. 25 Aug '10 12:32
    Originally posted by sh76
    You're reading this slightly wrong. Read the article a bit more closely.

    CityPass CEO Yair Naveh said the light rail is designed to serve everyone, and he saw no reason why every third or fourth carriage shouldn't be a "kosher car" to serve the needs of the ultra-Orthodox community.

    Nobody is segregated. Genders may be separated in one out of every ...[text shortened]... what they do voluntarily; not in forcing everyone else to behave like they do.
    Yes OK. The segregation is voluntary which I agree is better than compulsory, but it arises from the same source as that which motivates muslim fanaticism , although as I have acknowledged does not have undesirable consequences outside Israel.
    However I had a Jewish woman friend who was subjected to abuse by some 'ultra-orthodox' Jews when she went out in a sleeveless dress while on holiday in Jerusalem.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    25 Aug '10 12:59
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    Yes OK. The segregation is voluntary which I agree is better than compulsory, but it arises from the same source as that which motivates muslim fanaticism , although as I have acknowledged does not have undesirable consequences outside Israel.
    However I had a Jewish woman friend who was subjected to abuse by some 'ultra-orthodox' Jews when she went out in a sleeveless dress while on holiday in Jerusalem.
    Yes, a sleeveless dress will get you some comments in some sections of Jerusalem. No question. Presumably, however, she was walking in their neighborhood. They have their dress codes and they appreciate it if people who come into their neighborhood abide by them; and often will make their displeasure known when one does not.

    Silly? In my opinion, yes. Motivated by "the same source as that which motivates muslim fanaticism"? Perhaps. But she cannot claim to have been surprised. There are signs all over these areas in Hebrew and English with requests not to enter certain areas if you're not dressed to their specs (which, incidentally, apply to both genders). By "abuse," I assume you meant that someone yelled at her. It's stupid and counterproductive to yell at people in this context, granted. But I can't exactly feel too badly for your friend. She ignored the signs and knowingly entered into a neighborhood where her dress was not in conformance with local norms and expectations and got yelled at a little bit. No big deal.
  5. 25 Aug '10 17:25
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=israeli+racist&aq=f
  6. 25 Aug '10 17:25
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSZZKJp8Syw

    foxtrot2572 | August 18, 2009

    Would you want this person as your neighbor ? LOL
    Interesting conversation with an israeli settler (august 17th). I went to a protest against Governor Mike Huckabee, who is here in Jerusalem to support the Israeli settler cause in occupied Palestine and particularly in Sheikh Jarrah. On the way down from the protest, we came across a young woman who asked us where the protest was in Hebrew. We told her we did not speak Hebrew, and she asked us again in English, after which we gave her the directions. She asked us where we were coming from, and we said that we were coming from the Peace Now protest, which is against settlements. Immediately her face changed. She asked us if we were Jewish. When we said no, she asked us why we were in her country. She said that we had no right to be here, and that this country was only for the Jews, who were given this land by God. My friend asked her if she thought God would distinguish amongst people of different religions. She said yes, because she was part of the "Chosen People". In this video, one of my other friends ask her if this justifies the murder of tens of thousands of Arabs (referring to the massacre that took place with the creation of the State of Israel). You can hear her assert that yes, it does. Not only that, she says that she loves that Arabs are killed. Then she tells us to get off her land, and threatens to break our camera. Her words weren't empty. Unfortunately, the footage ends when she jumped on me ( I was holding the camera ). She hit us all and would not let us leave. We did not want to react, because we were afraid of being accused by her of attack instead of self-defense (settlers are often favoured by the police in Israel). So, we waited (I was a bit scared, not gonna lie) until police showed up and saw that she was the one attacking us. They told us to leave right away, and told the settler to go away. What is interesting is that if a Palestinian would have attacked us in the same way and the police would have seen, the Palestinian without a doubt would have been arrested and imprisoned. It is a bit windy, so it might be hard to understand her clearly. Listen closely and you should be able to make out what she is saying.
  7. 25 Aug '10 17:28
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhlI8n4VOiQ

    portsanity | February 02, 2010

    This happens every time you go out of your home if you are an Arab
    Living in the apartheid state of Israel
  8. 25 Aug '10 17:29
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hefIti-uFUo&feature=related

    Jewish Hate Caught on tape
  9. 25 Aug '10 17:32
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhMk7zNasU4&NR=1

    bad Israeli jew Settlers Speak
  10. 25 Aug '10 17:35 / 1 edit
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zjnsaKXHg&feature=related

    Settlers attack Palestinian school children in Hebron

    sashrip | February 11, 2009

    This is a disturbing video of settlers taunting and throwing stones at Palestinian school children at Cordoba School in Hebron. Video sent to me by Breaking the Silence, an Israeli activist group.
  11. 25 Aug '10 17:38
    maybe Israel could use some advice from Malaysia and South Africa. and a Reconciliation Agency.
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    25 Aug '10 17:39
    Does any of this crap have anything to do with this thread at all?
  13. 25 Aug '10 22:57
    Originally posted by sh76
    Does any of this crap have anything to do with this thread at all?
    what!?!? read your post just preceding these (gems of cultural wisdom).
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    25 Aug '10 23:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Yes, a sleeveless dress will get you some comments in some sections of Jerusalem. No question. Presumably, however, she was walking in their neighborhood. They have their dress codes and they appreciate it if people who come into their neighborhood abide by them; and often will make their displeasure known when one does not.

    Silly? In my opinion, yes. Motiv onformance with local norms and expectations and got yelled at a little bit. No big deal.
    Well there you go; people like Sam should just put up signs in their neighborhood saying "No Blacks allowed" and if Blacks enter their neighborhood, verbally abuse them. After all, it's "their" neighborhood and everything would be "voluntary". Like you said, "no big deal".
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    26 Aug '10 00:00 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Well there you go; people like Sam should just put up signs in their neighborhood saying "No Blacks allowed" and if Blacks enter their neighborhood, verbally abuse them. After all, it's "their" neighborhood and everything would be "voluntary". Like you said, "no big deal".
    A black person doesn't choose to be black. A person does choose how he or she dresses.

    A person's race, color, etc., is inherent. How a person dresses can be easily changed, especially for a one time occurrence.

    Try going into the 21 Club in a jeans and tee shirt. See how far you get.

    etc.

    etc.

    etc.

    I find it hard to believe you were serious about the comparison. So, what's the underlying point here?