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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    15 Jan '11 23:39
    Personally I think it the height of hypocrisy to allow cigarette sales when millions die from cigarettes and other tobacco products every year in the world, and a half million die each year in the US alone but marijuana which has yet to have a proven medical death attributed to it, is criminalized. If that isn't hypocritical I don't know the meaning of that word.
    If legalized and taxed, it is worth about 14 billion a year in the US alone. What is their problem?

    I know the whole thing started with Anslinger, world class assshole, about 70 odd years ago but why has this criminalization hung on so long?
  2. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    15 Jan '11 23:52
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Personally I think it the height of hypocrisy to allow cigarette sales when millions die from cigarettes and other tobacco products every year in the world, and a half million die each year in the US alone but marijuana which has yet to have a proven medical death attributed to it, is criminalized. If that isn't hypocritical I don't know the meaning of that ...[text shortened]... world class assshole, about 70 odd years ago but why has this criminalization hung on so long?
    This is the wrong basis for an argument to re-legalise marijuana i.e. if A is legal then B should be legal, that just gives another foothold for the busybodies and control freaks to ban substance A:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70A43C20110111

    The correct start point is that you own your body and life and as such it is for you to decide how you treat it, this fact of self ownership is at the root of so many debates, if you don't own yourself, your life and body, then who does?

    No.1, will claim he does.
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    16 Jan '11 00:08
    Alternatively you could measure the harm done by prohibition and ask who benefits from this? It would leave any rational observor asking how prohibiton has been allowed to persists at all. Certainly there is a need for regulation and that is something we have been able to achieve in many areas. The food industry would benefit with better regulation for a start to stop poisoning us systematically. But then, who benefits from the lack of sensible regulation here?

    Either we are governed by idiots with personality disorders (quite a rational proposal) or we are being taken for a ride by powerful vested interests.
  4. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    16 Jan '11 00:27
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Alternatively you could measure the harm done by prohibition and ask who benefits from this? It would leave any rational observor asking how prohibiton has been allowed to persists at all. Certainly there is a need for regulation and that is something we have been able to achieve in many areas. The food industry would benefit with better regulation for a st ...[text shortened]... rders (quite a rational proposal) or we are being taken for a ride by powerful vested interests.
    I'm not so certain about the need for regulation, if you're not happy with food from the 'food industry' you should grow your own or source food that passes your standards, no reason to force your standards on others, but don't want to side track the thread.

    The primary defence is self ownership, yes, another attack might be "Do drug laws do more harm than good?."

    i.e. criminal gangs love the illegality of drugs, that is how they fund many of their activities. If marijuana were legal it might be grown on any farm and sold at any outlet (subject to age retriction, the only reg required) and be no different from growing and selling tomatoes. The more the law clamps down by cutting supply, so demand goes up, prices go up and it becomes even more lucrative, a vicious never ending circle.
  5. 16 Jan '11 00:34
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Personally I think it the height of hypocrisy to allow cigarette sales when millions die from cigarettes and other tobacco products every year in the world, and a half million die each year in the US alone but marijuana which has yet to have a proven medical death attributed to it, is criminalized. If that isn't hypocritical I don't know the meaning of that ...[text shortened]... world class assshole, about 70 odd years ago but why has this criminalization hung on so long?
    Wreck America's #1 cash crop? What do you want, another depression?
  6. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    16 Jan '11 00:38
    Originally posted by whodey
    Wreck America's #1 cash crop? What do you want, another depression?
    The dutchies do quite well out of drug tourism.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    16 Jan '11 00:53
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    if you're not happy with food from the 'food industry' you should grow your own or source food that passes your standards, no reason to force your standards on others
    Yes. Maybe surviving family members can establish a memorial vegetable patch.
  8. 16 Jan '11 00:59
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    The dutchies do quite well out of drug tourism.
    Which will plummet when other countries legalize it.
  9. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    16 Jan '11 01:20
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    The dutchies do quite well out of drug tourism.
    How about the violence inherent in the cartels, especially in Mexico? What would happen if their cash crop was legalized? How many people would still be alive today if that violence was stopped?
  10. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    16 Jan '11 01:31
    Originally posted by FMF
    Yes. Maybe surviving family members can establish a memorial vegetable patch.
    All the food prepared in the kitchen at home, yes I can see it now FMF heading up the new enlarged bloated bureau of food safety, executing search warrants on private homes, "hey you, why didn't you check the temperature in that refridgerator in the last 35 minutes?" pulling licenses to cook your own food from people that don't stand in line when you tell them, shutting down a million roadside stalls through out asia, dang it the people can just go hungry (er) main thing is to get an army of clip board toting bureaurats out there to police, police, police,...oh and pay for that policing too.
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    16 Jan '11 01:36
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    All the food prepared in the kitchen at home, yes I can see it now FMF heading up the new enlarged bloated bureau of food safety, executing search warrants on private homes, "hey you, why didn't you check the temperature in that refridgerator in the last 35 minutes?" pulling licenses to cook your own food from people that don't stand in line when you tell the ...[text shortened]... d toting bureaurats out there to police, police, police,...oh and pay for that policing too.
    I think there is no question at all that there is a legitimate role - an obligation, in fact - for government in setting and enforcing public safety standards for commercial food production.
  12. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    16 Jan '11 01:42
    Originally posted by FMF
    I think there is no question at all that there is a legitimate role - an obligation, in fact - for government in setting and enforcing public safety standards for commercial food production.
    Privatise the standards association, there are any number of independant organisations already exisitng, then let people choose to buy food certified to, for eg, ISO 9000 safety standards.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    16 Jan '11 01:49
    Of course.
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    16 Jan '11 01:58
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    Privatise the standards association, there are any number of independant organisations already exisitng, then let people choose to buy food certified to, for eg, ISO 9000 safety standards.
    Yes, let the illnesses and deaths of consumers become market forces. Let the stock market and its speculators decide safety standards and also the fate of poorly performing private standards associations. Let the latter fight back by altering perceptions (albeit not the facts) of the inevitable scandals and the fatalities with slick advertising campaigns aimed at shareholders and/or delivering media hack jobs on concerned health experts who are not wealthy enough to hire ad agencies.

    Stand for public office, Wajoma, and do so on your 'food safety' ticket. See what happens.
  15. 16 Jan '11 01:59
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Personally I think it the height of hypocrisy to allow cigarette sales when millions die from cigarettes and other tobacco products every year in the world, and a half million die each year in the US alone but marijuana which has yet to have a proven medical death attributed to it, is criminalized. If that isn't hypocritical I don't know the meaning of that ...[text shortened]... world class assshole, about 70 odd years ago but why has this criminalization hung on so long?
    Yes, it should be legalized.

    Ignorance is why it is illegal. Alcohol is deadly, cannabis is not. Many people are not aware that cannabis kills no one.
    Also, prohibiting an adaptable plant is just a waste of effort/money.... Idiotic, really.