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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 26 Jun '14 13:12
    Over the last years, the anti-vaxxer movement has grown in influence, despite no scientific evidence supporting any of their claims.

    Whether for religious reasons or unfounded fears, the fact remains that unvaccinated children are at huge risk to contract threatening and maybe deadly diseases and pose a threat to the rest of the population.

    I argue that they should be legally required to submit to vaccination and refusal should be considered child abuse.
  2. 26 Jun '14 13:36 / 1 edit
    Definitely should be required for kids in public schools so diseases don't get spread among the young, especially in the USA where most children under the age of 12 are some sort of 3rd world descendants with a history of problems in that area.
    Welcome to the new America.
  3. 26 Jun '14 14:03
    Of course. It's a pretty nasty form of child abuse.
  4. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    26 Jun '14 14:04
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Over the last years, the anti-vaxxer movement has grown in influence, despite no scientific evidence supporting any of their claims.

    Whether for religious reasons or unfounded fears, the fact remains that unvaccinated children are at huge risk to contract threatening and maybe deadly diseases and pose a threat to the rest of the population.

    I argue ...[text shortened]... hould be legally required to submit to vaccination and refusal should be considered child abuse.
    Are the vaccines safe? The triple jab (measles, mumps, rubella) is given to very young children, after a scare it was found to be safe. Measles is fatal in about 5% of cases, the other two aren't really a problem unless contracted after puberty. Before the introduction of the triple jab, there were three separate vaccines. I got my rubella and mumps resistance the old fashioned way. Bear in mind that a new vaccine has to be trialled on children, and Phase I (safety) trials are on healthy adult volunteers. So the population is different and adverse effects can occur in children that you don't see in adults.

    The other problem is that we become over-reliant on technical solutions to problems and forget basic disease control lessons which don't require vaccines. Half the problem is over-crowding and poor housing and sanitation methods. Typhus was known as gaol fever in the old days because that was where people were most at risk of contracting it, it's a bacterial disease so vaccines won't help. The biggest killer is probably malaria and that is a bacteria as well.

    How serious should the diseases you vaccinate against be? TB for sure. You see there is a catch with all this, diseases with a high prevalence occupy niches which other bugs can also occupy. HIV binds to the same protein on helper T cells as smallpox, so the eradication of smallpox may have let HIV out of the bag - resistance to HIV piggy backs on resistance to smallpox. Given the choice HIV is probably the lesser evil as it is less transmissible. But the catch with eradicating one disease is that you open a niche for another.

    I really don't think that labelling parents who are concerned about possible side effects as child abusers is the way forward.
  5. 26 Jun '14 18:02
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Of course. It's a pretty nasty form of child abuse.
    Yes, having the child suffer from the side effects of a vaccination is pretty abusive. My sister was given a bad batch and suffered very high fever as a baby as a result.
  6. 26 Jun '14 18:07
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Yes, having the child suffer from the side effects of a vaccination is pretty abusive. My sister was given a bad batch and suffered very high fever as a baby as a result.
    Poor thing. I guess she would've been better off dying from the measles. And as we all know, vaccination practises haven't improved whatsoever in the last couple of decades.
  7. 26 Jun '14 18:11
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Poor thing. I guess she would've been better off dying from the measles. And as we all know, vaccination practises haven't improved whatsoever in the last couple of decades.
    I don't know a single person who has died from the measles.
  8. 26 Jun '14 18:17
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I don't know a single person who has died from the measles.
    luckily, we don't act on what eladar knows.
  9. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    26 Jun '14 18:19
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I don't know a single person who has died from the measles.
    Gosh I wonder why.
  10. 26 Jun '14 18:21 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Gosh I wonder why.
    Because it is very unlikely that you will contract measles in the US?

    Of course now that people are coming in from countries where measles is still a problem, we might start seeing it again.

    You can blame it on the ones not getting a vaccination if you like, I blame it on the people who refuse to enforce immigration laws.
  11. 26 Jun '14 18:49
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Are the vaccines safe? The triple jab (measles, mumps, rubella) is given to very young children, after a scare it was found to be safe. Measles is fatal in about 5% of cases, the other two aren't really a problem unless contracted after puberty. Before the introduction of the triple jab, there were three separate vaccines. I got my rubella and mumps ...[text shortened]... lling parents who are concerned about possible side effects as child abusers is the way forward.
    vaccines, like seatbelts cars, are thoroughly tested. they are proven without a doubt to save lives. if one is faulty that doesn't mean you get to not use them, just in case one might not work.

    there are ways to report bad vaccines. you go before a panel of specialists and argue your case


    not vaccinating however is irresponsible, not just to the child in question but also for all the children with immunity problems that cannot get vaccinated and rely on crowd protection.
  12. 26 Jun '14 18:49
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Because it is very unlikely that you will contract measles in the US?

    Of course now that people are coming in from countries where measles is still a problem, we might start seeing it again.

    You can blame it on the ones not getting a vaccination if you like, I blame it on the people who refuse to enforce immigration laws.
    "Because it is very unlikely that you will contract measles in the US?"
    because people get vaccinated, ya dolt
  13. 26 Jun '14 18:55
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "Because it is very unlikely that you will contract measles in the US?"
    because people get vaccinated, ya dolt
    Yes moron and once the population no longer has the disease you don't need the vaccination.
  14. 26 Jun '14 19:03
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I don't know a single person who has died from the measles.
    ...and?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles#Epidemiology
  15. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    26 Jun '14 19:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "Because it is very unlikely that you will contract measles in the US?"
    because people get vaccinated, ya dolt


    Thank God. I thought it was me for a sec.