Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
    15 Jan '06
    Moves
    119371
    28 Jul '18 13:19
    We observe and discuss both sides. We vote on a work day on a Tuesday in November. Some say this makes voting difficult and exclusionary. We can see by results, that many eligible voters just don't vote. Then there is redistricting, new rules put forth for voter eligibility, identification requirements etc. Both side cry foul and the division grows deeper. Then there is the primary process, where we start in Iowa, and wind our way through the country. Often, the states that have late primaries don't even get to vote on the full field of candidates. Is our system flawed or fair?
  2. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    28 Jul '18 14:07
    Automatic voter registration, compulsory voting according to party-list proportional representation.

    The American system is one of the worst systems among highly developed democracies, plagued by issues that are either less severe or altogether absent in most other systems, such as voter suppression, gerrymandering, a two-party system, lack of independent media, government-controlled media, lack of separation of powers and legalized bribery.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52853
    28 Jul '18 14:36
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Automatic voter registration, compulsory voting according to party-list proportional representation.

    The American system is one of the worst systems among highly developed democracies, plagued by issues that are either less severe or altogether absent in most other systems, such as voter suppression, gerrymandering, a two-party system, lack of independent media, government-controlled media, lack of separation of powers and legalized bribery.
    AND vulnerable to hackers. It sounds like we may have to go back to paper voting and paper for political party strategy, keep that kind of thing off computers. If some dedicated hacker wants in a computer there is not much you can do to stop them.
  4. Behind the scenes
    Joined
    27 Jun '16
    Moves
    1406
    28 Jul '18 15:501 edit
    Originally posted by @loudog
    We observe and discuss both sides. We vote on a work day on a Tuesday in November. Some say this makes voting difficult and exclusionary. We can see by results, that many eligible voters just don't vote. Then there is redistricting, new rules put forth for voter eligibility, identification requirements etc. Both side cry foul and the division grows deeper. T ...[text shortened]... primaries don't even get to vote on the full field of candidates. Is our system flawed or fair?
    Is our system flawed or fair?


    Flawed, but not horribly so. Keeping a general election perfectly fair in a country with over 100 million voters would be difficult in the best of times. What makes this super difficult is when one of the major party candidates tells people "the whole system is rigged" or simply turns a blind eye when a foreign government attacks the election process. Such a candidate or elected official should be thinking about the good of the country rather than just himself. Sadly, this elected officials followers are also choosing to turn a blind eye to it as well.
  5. Joined
    23 Nov '11
    Moves
    23118
    28 Jul '18 16:05
    Originally posted by @loudog
    We observe and discuss both sides. We vote on a work day on a Tuesday in November. Some say this makes voting difficult and exclusionary. We can see by results, that many eligible voters just don't vote. Then there is redistricting, new rules put forth for voter eligibility, identification requirements etc. Both side cry foul and the division grows deeper. T ...[text shortened]... primaries don't even get to vote on the full field of candidates. Is our system flawed or fair?
    Flawed: Gerrymandering;voter ID designed to suppress groups who lean liberal; forever disenfranchising anyone who has served time in jail; limiting where and when one can register to vote, voting one day for 12 hours when most people must work; voting machines susceptible to hacking. The United States is an oligarchy. It's a democracy in name only.
  6. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
    Joined
    27 Oct '04
    Moves
    80056
    28 Jul '18 16:30
    Originally posted by @loudog
    We observe and discuss both sides. We vote on a work day on a Tuesday in November. Some say this makes voting difficult and exclusionary. We can see by results, that many eligible voters just don't vote. Then there is redistricting, new rules put forth for voter eligibility, identification requirements etc. Both side cry foul and the division grows deeper. T ...[text shortened]... primaries don't even get to vote on the full field of candidates. Is our system flawed or fair?
    You should have a defence team around polling stations so that only people determined enough to fight their way through can vote.
  7. Standard memberlemon lime
    ookookachu
    oLd ScHoOl
    Joined
    31 May '13
    Moves
    5577
    28 Jul '18 16:58
    Originally posted by @loudog
    We observe and discuss both sides. We vote on a work day on a Tuesday in November. Some say this makes voting difficult and exclusionary. We can see by results, that many eligible voters just don't vote. Then there is redistricting, new rules put forth for voter eligibility, identification requirements etc. Both side cry foul and the division grows deeper. T ...[text shortened]... primaries don't even get to vote on the full field of candidates. Is our system flawed or fair?
    Is our system flawed or fair?

    Both. Any system will be flawed, so imo that is a given. But it's relatively fair compared to other systems of elections and governing. For example, systems that punish free speech rather than encourage it allow for false and misleading ideas to go unchecked, such as the phoney idea of "voter suppression".

    According to the left wing school of thought we are encouraged to believe voter fraud is okay simply because some people are calling it 'voter suppression'.
    Voter suppression is wrong and voter fraud is wrong, but they are not the same thing... discouraging voter fraud is not the same thing as voter suppression.

    This false equivalency is not a mistake. It was intentionally devised to mislead people for the purpose of gaining an advantage. Anyone who complains about discouraging what in reality is voter fraud has either been misled, or knowingly wants to gain an unfair advantage by way of fraudulent means.
  8. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    28 Jul '18 17:21
    Originally posted by @lemon-lime
    But it's relatively fair compared to other systems of elections and governing.
    Which ones specifically?
  9. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    28 Jul '18 17:50
    How about actually having to prove you are a US citizen to vote in US elections?
  10. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    28 Jul '18 22:32
    Originally posted by @eladar
    How about actually having to prove you are a US citizen to vote in US elections?
    Is it only citizens who can vote?
    Don't most countries allow citizens and residents to vote?
    (I'm genuinely asking because I don't know the US system)
  11. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    28 Jul '18 22:42
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59 to Eladar
    Is it only citizens who can vote?
    Don't most countries allow citizens and residents to vote?
    (I'm genuinely asking because I don't know the US system)
    Yes. Indeed, many ignorant Americans wrongly claim that the US Constitution protects
    the rights of only US citizens, not of 'persons'.
  12. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    28 Jul '18 22:46
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/22/no-good-reason-voting-remains-inaccessible

    "There's no good reason voting remains so inaccessible for so many Americans.
    "In Texas and other states nationwide, it keeps getting harder to cast a ballot even
    though technology should make it a breeze."

    "Texas governor Greg Abbott rejected Obama’s criticism, saying that laws like the infamous
    Texas voter ID law, which requires voters to show a valid state ID at the polls and was found
    by federal courts to be unconstitutional, are necessary to remain vigilant against voter fraud.
    Never mind that, in Texas, there have only been four cases of in-person voter fraud out
    of the last 72m votes. That makes in-person voter fraud in Texas less common than
    getting struck by lightning here."

    "When Texas voters who moved from one county to another went online to change their
    address, they were asked if they would like to register to vote in their new county.
    But checking yes on the form doesn’t register them in the new county. It un-registers
    them from their current county. Only in fine print does the website tell you that, to
    register again in your new county, you must visit a different website that tells you to fill
    out and mail an application, or take it in person to the voter registrar of your new county,
    because Texas doesn’t allow online voter registration."
  13. Joined
    05 Nov '06
    Moves
    81298
    28 Jul '18 22:54
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    AND vulnerable to hackers. It sounds like we may have to go back to paper voting and paper for political party strategy, keep that kind of thing off computers. If some dedicated hacker wants in a computer there is not much you can do to stop them.
    LOL...voting machines are not attached to the WWW.
  14. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56281
    28 Jul '18 22:58
    Originally posted by @lemon-lime
    [b]Is our system flawed or fair?

    Both. Any system will be flawed, so imo that is a given. But it's relatively fair compared to other systems of elections and governing. For example, systems that punish free speech rather than encourage it allow for false and misleading ideas to go unchecked, such as the phoney idea of "voter suppression".

    Accor ...[text shortened]... s either been misled, or knowingly wants to gain an unfair advantage by way of fraudulent means.[/b]
    Left wingers are okay with voter fraud???

    Really?
  15. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    28 Jul '18 23:35
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Left wingers are okay with voter fraud???

    Really?
    They are in the US.
Back to Top