Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 13 Mar '15 18:25 / 1 edit
    Happy day last week I finally retired. My last assignment was in a middle school, here in America that's grades 6-7-8, 12 to 14 year olds.
    Teachers in the USA today have NO way to control students if they don't consent. It was common in the school I was at to have a 13 year old use the vilest language and scream threats at a teacher with no consequences other than being sent to the office and then go to the next class when the bell rang. Some students discovered that they could leave class and simply wander around campus for hours if they wanted, the staff was not allowed to do anything about it because if anyone laid a hand on them the school district and the teacher/monitor could be sued. (For violating the poor dear's rights and using excessive force) Literally the inmates are running the asylum here in the American education system, and it starts at a young age.
    I believe this is a result of corporal punishment being banned in schools in the 70's and the liberal "don't lower their self-esteem" mindset.
    We have created a generation of vipers and I am glad to be done with it.
    I think allowing teachers to carry a big thick paddle and swat little smart azzes and shake them up a little would solve this.
    It worked when I was a kid in the 50's.
    Oh...did I mention that I worked in a school system that was primarily hispanic/black?
    Not that that matters.
  2. 13 Mar '15 18:45
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    Happy day last week I finally retired. My last assignment was in a middle school, here in America that's grades 6-7-8, 12 to 14 year olds.
    Teachers in the USA today have NO way to control students if they don't consent. It was common in the school I was at to have a 13 year old use the vilest language and scream threats at a teacher with no consequence ...[text shortened]... tion that I worked in a school system that was primarily hispanic/black?
    Not that that matters.
    In many schools (especially in poverty areas) you are correct that the animals are in control of the zoo.

    I don't think hitting is the answer. I think students being required to pass competency tests is the answer.
  3. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    13 Mar '15 19:01
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    Happy day last week I finally retired. My last assignment was in a middle school, here in America that's grades 6-7-8, 12 to 14 year olds.
    Teachers in the USA today have NO way to control students if they don't consent. It was common in the school I was at to have a 13 year old use the vilest language and scream threats at a teacher with no consequence ...[text shortened]... tion that I worked in a school system that was primarily hispanic/black?
    Not that that matters.
    My high school principal was still wielding the paddle when I graduated in 1984. He was big burly dude and he'd usually give you a choice... detention or the swat. Most kids took the swat. They had the paddle in my grade school too. It was pretty rare for kids to be mouthing off to teachers.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 Mar '15 19:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    My high school principal was still wielding the paddle when I graduated in 1984. He was big burly dude and he'd usually give you a choice... detention or the swat. Most kids took the swat. They had the paddle in my grade school too. It was pretty rare for kids to be mouthing off to teachers.
    If there was a choice between detention and the swat, then obviously detention was sufficient as a deterrent and the swat option was unnecessary (if a choice between a swat and detention was a deterrent, then a fortiori detention without an alternative option would have been a deterrent.

    I don't think it's that big a deal, but really, if it's going to be the kid's choice anyway, then why bother?
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 Mar '15 19:09 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    Happy day last week I finally retired. My last assignment was in a middle school, here in America that's grades 6-7-8, 12 to 14 year olds.
    Teachers in the USA today have NO way to control students if they don't consent. It was common in the school I was at to have a 13 year old use the vilest language and scream threats at a teacher with no consequence ...[text shortened]... tion that I worked in a school system that was primarily hispanic/black?
    Not that that matters.
    How about trying real detentions with teeth?

    If a kid knew that if he mouths off, he'd have to spend 4 hours on Saturday doing extra math homework in the school library, that would be an even better deterrent.
  6. 13 Mar '15 19:25
    They'd just flunk repeatedly and after being held back twice, they would be pushed through the system to get rid of them.
    Seen it a thousand times.
  7. 13 Mar '15 19:26
    Originally posted by sh76
    How about trying real detentions with teeth?

    If a kid knew that if he mouths off, he'd have to spend 4 hours on Saturday doing extra math homework in the school library, that would be an even better deterrent.
    He just wouldn't show up or if he did, he'd be high and sit around drawing cartoons or talking on his cell phone.
    What part of "we can't make kids do anything" did you miss?
  8. 13 Mar '15 19:32
    Originally posted by sh76
    How about trying real detentions with teeth?

    If a kid knew that if he mouths off, he'd have to spend 4 hours on Saturday doing extra math homework in the school library, that would be an even better deterrent.
    Who is going to pay the person to come in on the weekends?

    Even so, it is the total lack of respect for school that's the problem. Why should they bother if nothing happens if they learn or not?
  9. 13 Mar '15 19:37
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    Happy day last week I finally retired. My last assignment was in a middle school, here in America that's grades 6-7-8, 12 to 14 year olds.
    Teachers in the USA today have NO way to control students if they don't consent. It was common in the school I was at to have a 13 year old use the vilest language and scream threats at a teacher with no consequence ...[text shortened]... tion that I worked in a school system that was primarily hispanic/black?
    Not that that matters.
    "Not that that matters."
    no, no, i am sure you just said it as a piece of trivia.
  10. 13 Mar '15 19:43
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Who is going to pay the person to come in on the weekends?

    Even so, it is the total lack of respect for school that's the problem. Why should they bother if nothing happens if they learn or not?
    Indeed.
    I saw an 18 year old pick up a calculator to figure out what 3 times 7 was.
    She graduated from the 12th grade. She was functionally illiterate and dumb as a box of snot.
    The reason she was passed along each year was because she didn't have the intellectual capacity to read beyond the 3rd grade level, or do basic math, and that's OK, but in the US, ALL students are considered to be capable of doing any normal high school work and no allowance is made for the morons we have to put up with, thanks to the "No Child Left behind" law.
    She was also a contrary violent anti-social nut job that was kept in school with normal kids because America is run by morons as far as our education system goes. .
    But that's another story.
  11. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    13 Mar '15 19:47
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    Happy day last week I finally retired. My last assignment was in a middle school, here in America that's grades 6-7-8, 12 to 14 year olds.
    Teachers in the USA today have NO way to control students if they don't consent. It was common in the school I was at to have a 13 year old use the vilest language and scream threats at a teacher with no consequence ...[text shortened]... tion that I worked in a school system that was primarily hispanic/black?
    Not that that matters.
    I agree. Corporal punishment should be re introduced, both in school, and in the home. Children need to understand that rules exist for their safety and for the safety of those around them. Oh....and by the way. I'm a LIBERAL, so let's not drag stereotypes into this, OK.
  12. 13 Mar '15 22:09
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I don't think hitting is the answer. I think students being required to pass competency tests is the answer.
    I dunno. Hitting the children isn't the answer, it is provably counter-productive. Hitting the parents, though... And making teachers pass competency tests... and parents, before they become parents, and not just the practical test... all that might be a good idea.
    There's a lot of whining about "the children of this generation", but I see more problems with the soi-disant adults of this generation, the ones who are supposed to raise and educate the children. Let them live up to their duties, and the children will turn out all right.
  13. 13 Mar '15 22:19
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    I dunno. Hitting the children isn't the answer, it is provably counter-productive. Hitting the parents, though... And making teachers pass competency tests... and parents, before they become parents, and not just the practical test... all that might be a good idea.
    There's a lot of whining about "the children of this generation", but I se ...[text shortened]... the children. Let them live up to their duties, and the children will turn out all right.
    Hitting isn't counter productive, it is just useless. It wouldn't make matters worse.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 Mar '15 22:24
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Who is going to pay the person to come in on the weekends?

    Even so, it is the total lack of respect for school that's the problem. Why should they bother if nothing happens if they learn or not?
    The cost of administering detention can't be that high. There are punishments that can be enforced other than paddling.

    As for "respect for the school" does paddling increase respect or merely base fear?
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 Mar '15 22:25
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    Indeed.
    I saw an 18 year old pick up a calculator to figure out what 3 times 7 was.
    She graduated from the 12th grade. She was functionally illiterate and dumb as a box of snot.
    The reason she was passed along each year was because she didn't have the intellectual capacity to read beyond the 3rd grade level, or do basic math, and that's OK, but in t ...[text shortened]... cause America is run by morons as far as our education system goes. .
    But that's another story.
    Maybe if they beat the crap out of her, she'd be doing calculus.