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Debates Forum

  1. 18 Jul '17 15:29
    The white man did it. Don't think so. Been going on forever. Todays special. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4043559/isis-sold-captured-women-sex-slaves-mosul-document-reveals/
  2. 18 Jul '17 16:27
    Who is saying that "[only] the 'white man'" has been responsible for enslaving others? According to the Bible (as well as historical record of course), slavery and sex slavery were practiced by ancient peoples, and the people of that region at that time would today not be considered "white" by most.
  3. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    18 Jul '17 17:15
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Who is saying that "[only] the 'white man'" has been responsible for enslaving others? According to the Bible (as well as historical record of course), slavery and sex slavery were practiced by ancient peoples, and the people of that region at that time would today not be considered "white" by most.
    The bible: no source more trustworthy...
  4. 18 Jul '17 18:04 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @kquinn909
    The white man did it. Don't think so. Been going on forever. Todays special. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4043559/isis-sold-captured-women-sex-slaves-mosul-document-reveals/
    I don't know of any historian who's claimed that slavery's *exclusively* imposed by white people upon non-white people.
    That said, I doubt that an already known racist white American writer has any sincere interest in history.
    I would submit that this thread is another of the tireless attempts by white people to deny
    or minimize the historical or continuing responsibilities of white people for racism.

    Here's an article by Jamie Utt (a white man) on racism:
    http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/07/why-white-people-struggle-with-racism/

    "Here Are the Real Reasons Why We White People Struggle to Admit That Racism Still Exists"

    "I see my fellow White people so wrapped up in defending the idea that systemic racism doesn’t exist that
    we are unable to empathize with the real pain caused to people of Color by racism, both interpersonal and systemic."

    That defensiveness and absence of empathy seems almost universal among the white writers here.

    "Why are we so resistant to acknowledging the countless examples of our racial privilege?
    What do we risk by actually empathizing with people of Color and acknowledging how racial oppression plays out in our society?"

    "When someone calls us as White people out for racist behavior or language,
    we are almost never being accused of being card-carrying members of the KKK.
    Yet so many of us are stuck in a surface level, 1950s conception of racism where
    we can clearly identify it as wearing White hoods and burning crosses.
    But even then, racism was far more complex and insidious."

    "Racism is about the ways that virtually all of the systems in which we live
    (economic, educational, judicial, medical, and so on) were created to serve White people
    (particularly White, cisgender, straight men) while oppressing people of Color."

    "One of my favorite authors on the topic, Dr. Zeus Leonardo, lays out this distinction well,
    noting that Whiteness is something created by wealthy Europeans that subsumes all
    light-skinned European ethnicities into one identity.
    Why was Whiteness created? For social control: to allow wealthy White elites to unite
    poor and middle class Whites against people of Color."

    "White People Benefit Materially from Racism
    Therefore, most of us have an unacknowledged political and economic stake in maintaining White supremacy."

    "But benefitting from racist systems doesn’t mean that everything is magically easy for us.
    It just means that as hard as things are, they could always be worse.
    We could face the daily onslaught of overt and covert racism that impedes people of Color
    on top of all of our struggles."

    "White People Have an Emotional Stake in Denying White Supremacy
    Because that way, we can avoid dealing with how we’re complicit in its pervasiveness.
    Admitting that we’re acting in racist ways or supporting racist systems is terrifying. And it hurts.
    Scarier still is doing the deep emotional reflection to understand the ways that we may be truly racist deep down. "

    "Or that we are far more outraged by allegations of our own racism than by the everyday racism that destroys people’s lives?"

    How did Jamie Utt begin to unlearn his racism?

    "They asked me to quiet myself and listen to the voice of people of Color who described
    devastation caused by the everyday interpersonal and systemic racism.
    They challenged me to get in touch with my human capacity for empathy."

    Almost none of the white writers here (including the 'liberals' ) have shown any sincere
    willingness to listen respectfully to how non-white people are afflicted by everyday racism.

    "All of us as White people are offered a choice, then. Will we choose to live into our values and
    into our human capacity for empathic concern? Or will we invest in the alluring benefits of Whiteness?
    If we choose the former, then we have to resist our inclination to be defensive when talking about
    racism and our own complicity in its systems. We can’t pretend that we are simply “post-racial.'"
    --Jamie Utt
  5. 18 Jul '17 18:43
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    The bible: no source more trustworthy...
    I consider it unlikely that the cavemen who wrote the Bible were really morally upstanding people who only bragged about enslaving others to sound tough.
  6. 18 Jul '17 20:17
    Originally posted by @kquinn909
    The white man did it. Don't think so. Been going on forever. Todays special. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4043559/isis-sold-captured-women-sex-slaves-mosul-document-reveals/
    nobody said ever that white man invented slavery.

    your grand discovery is news to nobody.
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    18 Jul '17 21:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @kquinn909
    The white man did it. Don't think so. Been going on forever. Todays special. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4043559/isis-sold-captured-women-sex-slaves-mosul-document-reveals/
    Only whites enslaving blacks was legal in the USA.
  8. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    18 Jul '17 21:04
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    nobody said ever that white man invented slavery.

    your grand discovery is news to nobody.
    This is for the benefit of finnegan.
  9. 18 Jul '17 21:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    I don't know of any historian who's claimed that slavery's *exclusively* imposed by white people upon non-white people.
    That said, I doubt that an already known racist white American writer has any sincere interest in history.
    I would submit that this thread is another of the tireless attempts by white people to deny
    or minimize the historical or conti ...[text shortened]... own complicity in its systems. We can’t pretend that we are simply “post-racial.'"
    --Jamie Utt
    How can anyone deny that racism exists; is that really one of your claims in your post?
  10. 18 Jul '17 21:09
    White people are inherently evil, the only thing a white person should do is admit it and vote for people who will put whites in their place.
  11. 18 Jul '17 21:30
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Only whites enslaving blacks was legal in the USA.
    FALSE. The historical ignorance is overwhelming in this forum.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_slave_ownership

    "African slaves were owned by Native American from the colonial period until the United States' Civil War.
    Although, chattel slavery was a primarily European institution several North American
    indigenous groups adopted slave ownership for several purposes, the predominant as
    a tactic to assimilate into European colonial society. Most of the indigenous tribes who
    participated in this practice resided in the Southeast where white European infrastructure
    thrive off of slave ownership."

    _Black Masters: A Free Family of Color in the Old South_ by Michael Johnson and James Roark
    describes the extraordinary story of William Ellison, who was born into slavery.
    Given that his white master also was his father, he was treated better than other slaves.
    He became a master craftsman and eventually was manumitted by his owner (father).
    Eventually, as a free man in the South, William Ellison became a wealthy owner of slaves.

    Will some extremely dishonest white racists here cite the extraordinary story of William Ellison
    and absurdly claim that blacks were as likely as whites to be slave owners in the USA?
  12. 18 Jul '17 21:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    How can anyone deny that racism exists; is that really one of your claims in your post?
    Divegeester seems intent on denying that many white people like to deny that racism exists,
    at least among themselves or other white people.

    Here's an article by Jamie Utt (a white man) on racism:
    http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/07/why-white-people-struggle-with-racism/

    "Here Are the Real Reasons Why We White People Struggle to Admit That Racism Still Exists"

    "I see my fellow White people so wrapped up in defending the idea that systemic racism doesn’t exist that
    we are unable to empathize with the real pain caused to people of Color by racism, both interpersonal and systemic."
  13. 18 Jul '17 21:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    This is for the benefit of finnegan.
    Finnegan's a rare white writer here who evidently has made a sincere effort to
    comprehend that racism is much more than a sum of random individual prejudices.
    Finnegan also seems to be a rare white reader here who's sincerely willing to listen to
    people of colour criticize racism (with usually much more insight than white people have).
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    18 Jul '17 22:38 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    FALSE. The historical ignorance is overwhelming in this forum.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_slave_ownership

    "African slaves were owned by Native American from the colonial period until the United States' Civil War.
    Although, chattel slavery was a primarily European institution several North American
    indigenous groups adopted sl ...[text shortened]... Ellison
    and absurdly claim that blacks were as likely as whites to be slave owners in the USA?
    "Native" (indigenous) Americans and Blacks could not be citizens of the USA until 1868*, after the end of legal slavery in the USA.

    *See the Naturalization Act of 1790 and the 14th Amendment

    Of course there were non-Americans who had slaves but they weren't USA citizens...
  15. 18 Jul '17 22:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    "Native" (indigenous) Americans and Blacks could not be citizens of the USA until 1868*, after the end of legal slavery in the USA.

    *See the Naturalization Act of 1790 and the 14th Amendment

    Of course there were non-Americans who had slaves but they weren't USA citizens...
    "Only whites enslaving blacks was legal in the USA."
    --AThousandYoung

    Contrary to his later attempt to avoid conceding error, AThousandYoung made no claim
    about the US citizenship of the slave owners, only a claim about *where* slavery was legal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

    "The original United States Naturalization Law of March 26, 1790 (1 Stat. 103) provided
    the first rules to be followed by the United States in the granting of national citizenship.
    This law limited naturalization to immigrants who were free white persons of good character.
    It thus excluded American Indians, indentured servants, slaves, free blacks and later Asians
    although *free blacks were allowed citizenship at the state level in certain states*.
    It also provided for citizenship for the children of U.S. citizens born abroad, stating that such
    children "shall be considered as natural born citizens," the only US statute ever to use the term."