Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 22 Dec '17 21:45 / 3 edits
    Not everyone aspires to act like most Americans in public.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/05/culture-and-smiling/483827/

    "Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling"
    --Olga Khazan

    "It’s not just photos: Russian women do not have to worry about being
    instructed by random men to “smile.” ...
    It’s just that grinning without cause is not a skill Russians possess or feel
    compelled to cultivate. There’s even a Russian proverb that translates,
    roughly, to “laughing for no reason is a sign of stupidity.”"

    "Newcomers to America often remark on the novelty of being smiled at by strangers."

    "In some countries, smiling might not be a sign of warmth or even respect.
    It’s evidence that you’re a fool—a tricky fool."

    "He found that in countries like Germany, Switzerland, China, and Malaysia,
    smiling faces were rated as significantly more intelligent than non-smiling people.
    But in Japan, India, Iran, South Korea, and—you guessed it—Russia, the
    smiling faces were considered significantly less intelligent. Even after
    controlling for other factors, like the economy, there was a strong correlation
    between how unpredictable a society was and the likelihood they would
    consider smiling unintelligent. In countries such as India, Argentina, and
    the Maldives, meanwhile, smiling was associated with dishonesty
    —something Krys found to be correlated to their corruption rankings."

    "But it’s worth noting that other studies have found there might be other factors,
    like how hierarchical or masculine a culture is, that play a greater role in
    emotional expression—which smiling is certainly a part of. And there’s
    evidence that some cultures don’t value happiness very highly, which
    would affect how often people there force themselves to break into a grin."
  2. 22 Dec '17 22:06
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Not everyone aspires to act like most Americans in public.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/05/culture-and-smiling/483827/

    "Why Some Cultures Frown on Smiling"
    --Olga Khazan

    "It’s not just photos: Russian women do not have to worry about being
    instructed by random men to “smile.” ...
    It’s just that grinning without cause is n ...[text shortened]... very highly, which
    would affect how often people there force themselves to break into a grin."
  3. 22 Dec '17 23:00
    A genuine smile adds much beauty to a person. That's just my opinion. People love and are attracted to positive, shining people, not soulless statues. Being judged as less intelligent for expressing happiness is odd. I would think that there is no correlation.
  4. 22 Dec '17 23:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    A genuine smile adds much beauty to a person. That's just my opinion. People love and are attracted to positive, shining people, not soulless statues.
    Being judged as less intelligent for expressing happiness is odd. I would think that there is no correlation.
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10919-015-0226-4/fulltext.html

    "Be Careful Where You Smile: Culture Shapes Judgments of Intelligence and Honesty of Smiling Individuals"
    in "Journal of Nonverbal Behavior" (June 2016, Volume 40, Issue 2, pp 101–116)

    Abstract:
    "Smiling individuals are usually perceived more favorably than non-smiling ones—they
    are judged as happier, more attractive, competent, and friendly. These seemingly clear
    and obvious consequences of smiling are assumed to be culturally universal, however
    most of the psychological research is carried out in WEIRD societies (Western, Educated,
    Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic) and the influence of culture on social perception of
    nonverbal behavior is still understudied. Here we show that a smiling individual may be
    judged as less intelligent than the same non-smiling individual in cultures low on the
    GLOBE’s uncertainty avoidance dimension. Furthermore, we show that corruption at the
    societal level may undermine the prosocial perception of smiling—in societies with high
    corruption indicators, trust toward smiling individuals is reduced. This research fosters
    understanding of the cultural framework surrounding nonverbal communication processes
    and reveals that in some cultures smiling may lead to negative attributions."
  5. 22 Dec '17 23:23
    Americans, for all their problems, have a reputation for being friendly. (Not as friendly as South Africans, they take the prize) The Brits - especially Southern English and Londoners - are a bit reserved and stiff.

    When I first moved to South Africa, people were so nice that I would get defensive because it was hard for me to accept that they were being serious, since it was such a change from Surrey (snobby place).

    Smiling at strangers here and greeting them when you walk past them on the road is a big thing. It's a thing to heal the divisions of the past. When you smile at someone different to you, you might change their perceptions of people like you a tiny bit. Show them your humanity and that there is life on this planet. Personally, I'm glad for smiles. You know what they say, it's contagious.
  6. 23 Dec '17 00:22 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    Americans, for all their problems, have a reputation for being friendly. (Not as friendly as South Africans, they take the prize) The Brits - especially Southern English and Londoners - are a bit reserved and stiff.

    When I first moved to South Africa, people were so nice that I would get defensive because it was hard for me to accept that they were b ...[text shortened]... s life on this planet. Personally, I'm glad for smiles. You know what they say, it's contagious.
    Many visitors to the USA could live without American (insincere) displays of 'friendliness'.
    (Note to the illiterate: I did NOT write that all American displays of friendliness are insincere.)

    The ethnocentric Ash keeps showing that he believes that his culture's superior to others
    rather than making any sincere attempt to understand why other cultures are different.

    If Ash insists on looking down upon all the peoples of many diverse cultures who don't
    prize perpetual smiling as much as he does, then he's looking down upon many, if not most,
    people in the world.
  7. 23 Dec '17 00:27 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    A genuine smile adds much beauty to a person. That's just my opinion. People love and are attracted to positive, shining people, not soulless statues. Being judged as less intelligent for expressing happiness is odd. I would think that there is no correlation.
    "Being judged as less intelligent for expressing happiness is odd."
    --Ash

    Ash fails to comprehend that people may express happiness without smiling and that people
    can smile without feeling happy.

    Women often smile at men of whom they are afraid. Women tend to be socialized to appear
    as 'friendly' as possible. When a woman's afraid of a man, she may smile in attempting to
    disarm him and hoping that he will leave her alone. But many men may misconstrue this as
    her encouraging him to make more intimate advances upon her. Sometimes a woman
    keeps smiling at a man up until the point that he rapes her. Her smiling is a defense
    mechanism, which means nothing about her supposedly enjoying her experience.

    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080205105457AAsfrGl
    "Where do we get the phrase "grinning like an idiot" and what does it exactly mean?"
  8. 23 Dec '17 02:43
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Many visitors to the USA could live without American (insincere) displays of 'friendliness'.
    (Note to the illiterate: I did NOT write that all American displays of friendliness are insincere.)

    The ethnocentric Ash keeps showing that he believes that his culture's superior to others
    rather than making any sincere attempt to understand why other cultur ...[text shortened]... smiling as much as he does, then he's looking down upon many, if not most,
    people in the world.
    Smiling seems similar to the fact that in some cultures it is considered rude for children to look directly at adults to whom they are speaking while in other cultures, not looking directly at someone while engaging in conversation is considered rude. Perhaps the phrase, "When in Rome do as the Roman's do" is rather wise when traveling. Ash apparently grew up in a culture, the UK, where smiling at strangers is not the accepted norm. He moved to South Africa where random smiling is the norm and liked it. Why attack him? As for visitors to the U.S. who do not appreciate being smiled at by strangers, well, I guess they just need to accept that cultures differ and consider it part of their experience in a foreign land. Is Duchess suggesting that Americans should stop smiling at strangers in order to be more in tune with another culture? Your point here is not very clear. You seem to be fishing for another attack on culture in the U.S. There is enough to legitimately criticize about culture and life in the U.S. without stooping to an attack on random smiling.
  9. 23 Dec '17 04:53 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @phranny
    Smiling seems similar to the fact that in some cultures it is considered rude for children to look directly at adults to whom they are speaking while in other cultures, not looking directly at someone while engaging in conversation is considered rude. Perhaps the phrase, "When in Rome do as the Roman's do" is rather wise when traveling. Ash apparently gre ...[text shortened]... ly criticize about culture and life in the U.S. without stooping to an attack on random smiling.
    If the ethnocentric American Phranny could comprehend what Ash and I wrote,
    she would know that I have encouraged understanding other cultures
    while Ash has rejected that and strongly implied that cultures that encourage
    or even demand promiscuous smiling are far superior to cultures that don't.
    The fact that Phranny apparently agrees with Ash's cultural bias does
    not make it right.

    I suspect that many willfully ignorant ethnocentric Americans abroad
    will keep living up to the 'Ugly American' stereotype, and many of us
    would feel disappointed (sarcasm) if they stopped.

    But my point was much more about Americans becoming more tolerant
    of people who don't conform to their cultural expectations in the USA.
    I recall one case where an Asian immigrant man was wrongly convicted
    of murdering his child in part because he did not break down into tears
    as soon as the police informed him of the death. The police and the
    all-white jury misconstrued his stoicism as evidence of his guilt.

    Teinosuke (who's widely travelled) has written that he feels much more
    at home in some parts of Europe outside the UK than in the USA.

    The American dental industry loves to emphasize the social necessity
    of a gleaming white smile to rationalize some of its costly treatments.
    This discriminates against poorer people who cannot afford them.
  10. Subscriber joe shmo
    Strange Egg
    23 Dec '17 05:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    If the ethnocentric American Phranny could comprehend what Ash and I wrote,
    she would know that I have encouraged understanding other cultures
    while Ash has rejected that and proclaimed that cultures that encourage
    or even demand promiscuous smiling are far superior to cultures that don't.
    The fact that Phranny apparently agrees with Ash's cultural bi ...[text shortened]... written that he feels much more
    at home in some parts of Europe outside the UK than in the USA.
    Where “exactly” did Ash say or imply “cultures that encourage or even demand promiscuous smiling are far superior to cultures that don’t”

    Where Duchess...where???

    You are such a tool...
  11. 23 Dec '17 05:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @joe-shmo
    Where “exactly” did Ash say or imply “cultures that encourage or even demand promiscuous smiling are far superior to cultures that don’t”

    Where Duchess...where???

    You are such a tool...
    Joe Shmo's practically illiterate if he doubts that Ash does not strongly
    prefer 'always or normally smiling' cultures over other cultures.

    Ash completely equates the physical act of smiling with expressing
    friendship or happiness. That's wrong. Sometimes a woman has
    smiled at a man who just raped her, and it was not due to her regarding
    him as her friend or having enjoyed her rape.
  12. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    23 Dec '17 05:20 / 1 edit
    It’s obvious to me that different cultures have different strokes.

    Just think of handshakes versus a bow or something. Or the English giving you the middle-finger (they don’t, they give you two fingers instead... and it’s not the peace-sign).

    This being said, I’ve never heard of the smile being equated with stupidity before.
    I do know it’s considered impolite in some cultures... much like me having fits of the giggles at funerals is often frowned upon.

    As with most cultural differences though... the majority of people, once they know you’re from a different culture, stop judging you by their own standards.

    I have heard that US diplomats and Japanese business people tend to not belong to “the majority of people”.
    However, I secretly think that’s got less to do with cultural diversity, but lots more to do with personal arrogance.

    The two times, for example, that women have refused my handshake, they’ve been very appologetic about it. As in: sorry, for religious purposes I can’t, don’t mean to offend, etc.

    Most times my hand has been shaken and it’s been my turn to be appologetic once I realised it probably wasn’t their norm (I used to work on refugee camps).

    Why did I not stop shaking hands? Probably the same reason I didn’t stop looking people in the eye when I’m talking to them and why I don’t stop laughing at seriousness... it’s just me.

    And that’s the key to love.
    As soon as people realise you don’t actually mean to offend them deliberately (or put them down to make yourself look better), people tend to like you even if you’re different.

    Happy Xmas everyone.
    Have a good time, lots of booze and sex... no hangovers and STD’s!

    Take care with fireworks.

    Cya all next year.
  13. 23 Dec '17 05:24
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    It’s obvious to me that different cultures have different strokes.

    Just think of handshakes versus a bow or something. Or the English giving you the middle-finger (they don’t, they give you two fingers instead... and it’s not the peace-sign).

    This being said, I’ve never heard of the smile being equated with stupidity before.
    I do know it’s conside ...[text shortened]... s of booze and sex... no hangovers and STD’s!

    Take care with fireworks.

    Cya all next year.
    Many, if not most, Americans insist that contemporary American cultural
    norms are universal and should apply to everyone in every culture.
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    23 Dec '17 15:49
    I feel bad for people who live in cultures that don’t value happiness.
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    23 Dec '17 15:50 / 2 edits
    https://worldairlinenews.com/2012/10/30/air-china-introduces-smiling-china-its-10th-new-boeing-777-300-er/

    (✿◠‿◠)

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯