Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 04 Jan '18 14:08
    If left to liberals this will be the U.S.


    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-27219014
  2. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    04 Jan '18 14:41 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    If left to liberals this will be the U.S.


    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-27219014
    Cute little fantasy you have there. Meanwhile back on planet earth here's what's really happening in cities and states with overwhelming Liberal majorities.


    NOTE OF CAUTION: These articles contain some big words that may be frightening to Trump supporters.


    https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/08/blue-states-rank-better-than-red-in-livability-what-does-that-mean/


    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/opinion/campaign-stops/the-path-to-prosperity-is-blue.html


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/08/07/where-tech-jobs-are-seattle-s-f-d-c/540214001/
  3. Subscriber moonbus
    Uber-Nerd
    04 Jan '18 15:08
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    If left to liberals this will be the U.S.
    Only if stupid decision are made. If wise decisions are made, it could go more in the direction of Scandinavia, where socialism works very well.
  4. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    04 Jan '18 15:21
    Originally posted by @moonbus
    Only if stupid decision are made. If wise decisions are made, it could go more in the direction of Scandinavia, where socialism works very well.
    That would be hell for mutt the hippie, all those blonde, blue eyed white people, riding Volvo's, singing cool ABBA songs and getting naked in the sauna together. Sheer hell for the poor fellow.
  5. 04 Jan '18 15:55
    Originally posted by @moonbus
    Only if stupid decision are made. If wise decisions are made, it could go more in the direction of Scandinavia, where socialism works very well.
    not really...

    "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."


    https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/
  6. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    04 Jan '18 16:07
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    That would be hell for mutt the hippie, all those blonde, blue eyed white people, riding Volvo's, singing cool ABBA songs and getting naked in the sauna together. Sheer hell for the poor fellow.
    Hahaha
  7. 04 Jan '18 16:09
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    That would be hell for mutt the hippie, all those blonde, blue eyed white people, riding Volvo's, singing cool ABBA songs and getting naked in the sauna together. Sheer hell for the poor fellow.
    just be good and you might be allowed to wash my Volvo someday.
  8. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    04 Jan '18 16:23
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    not really...

    "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."


    https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/
    Too bizarre to comprehend... American right-wingers called Tony Blaire a socialist and now they’re claiming Scandanavia isn’t!

    Obama care is a communist nightmare, healthcare in Sweden isn’t.

    Of course Denmark
    Isn’t socialist (Neither was Tony Blair and neither is the end situation Sanders proposes).

    Scandanavia has implimented socialist policies (healthcare for all, mass eradication of poverty, many jobs carried out in the public sector, unemployed people being helped, high taxation to make
    The country run smoothly).

    To make the comparison more livid: Finland is doing an experiment into a basic income for all. If that succeeds (and the expectations are high), then work becomes a choice, rather than an obligation.

    Now take the minimum wage... Norway doesn’t have one. Yet, the standard of living for the poor is way better than in the US.
    How is this possible???

    Well, it’s because you (and this article) think that a minimum wage is a goal.
    It’s not. It’s a means to an end.

    Norway doesn’t need it, the US does.
  9. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    04 Jan '18 16:36
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    just be good and you might be allowed to wash my Volvo someday.
    Look I respect difference, and I respect your right to your sexuality and orientation, but no way am I washing your Vulva.
  10. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    04 Jan '18 19:16
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    If left to liberals this will be the U.S.


    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-27219014
    Take me through that step by step.
    I'm really interested.
  11. 04 Jan '18 22:14
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Take me through that step by step.
    I'm really interested.
    might can do tomorrow...out of crayons right now.
  12. Subscriber moonbus
    Uber-Nerd
    04 Jan '18 23:32
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    not really...

    "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."


    https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/
    You, like many in America, conflate socialism with communism. Communism entails a planned economy, abolition of private property, workers' control of the means of production, and a single-party state. Socialism entails none of that. Find out what socialism is before you criticize it.
  13. 05 Jan '18 01:24 / 1 edit
    Despite complete economic destruction, socialism in Venezuela is more popular than ever. That is the terrifying part.

    From the LA Times.


    It’s a puzzle. Over the last decade, Venezuela has supplanted Cuba as the Shangri-La of the American left. Not long ago, self-declared socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders insisted that the American dream was more achievable in the Bolivarian Republic than in America. A string of Hollywood luminaries made the pilgrimage to visit the socialist Mecca to say ponderous and stupid things.

    Today, the praise is more muted, because events have illuminated that stupidity. The government recently advised its citizens to eat their pet rabbits. Inflation in Venezuela is reminiscent of Weimar Germany. Roughly 85% of companies have stopped production to one extent or another, in the most oil rich country in the world.


    And yet, socialism is arguably more popular — in theory — than at any time in American history, particularly among young people. A Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation poll last November found that 42% of young people support capitalism, but 44% prefer socialism for a socioeconomic system.


    “Even mainstream liberals don’t like to concede any points in socialism’s disfavor.



    Why the disconnect? For conservatives of my ilk, the most obvious answer is that, for the left, socialism itself is never to blame. One of my favorite guilty pleasures is the Socialist Party of Great Britain’s Twitter feed, which insists daily that the socialist ideal has never been tarnished by real-world socialists. A tweet permanently affixed to the top of their page reads: “Are you about to tell us ‘Socialism was tried in Russia’ or ‘Look at Venezuela’ etc? It has NEVER EXISTED! It comes AFTER global capitalism!”

    Even mainstream liberals don’t like to concede any points in socialism’s disfavor. The late Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet was a murderer and a tyrant, so was the late Cuban Communist Fidel Castro. Pinochet helped his country transition to democracy. Castro, who killed more people, left his country as a police state. But while Pinochet is a demonic figure in the liberal imagination, Castro’s status is far more complicated. He is still a hero to many.

    For the last decade, the New York Times has covered the socialism of both Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez and his successor Nicolas Maduro with the same sophisticated nuance it long applied to Cuba. Over the weekend, it ran a heart-wrenching story on how Venezuela’s poor children are dying from starvation. But the culpability of Chavism, Venezuela’s brand of socialism, is something the reader has to bring to the page. Such passive detachment between cause (in this case socialist policies) and effect (mass misery and starvation) is rarely found when the Times reports on, say, Republican economic policy.

    The disconnect between socialism’s record and its invincible appeal also stems from leftists’ denial of what it really entails. Thus Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister of Britain, dragged the Labor Party away from its official socialist dogma about the need for the “common ownership of the means of production.”

    “Socialism for me,” he said, “was never about nationalization or the power of the state, not just about economics or even politics. It is a moral purpose to life, a set of values, a belief in society, in cooperation, in achieving together what we cannot achieve alone.” That’s why he rejected socialism in favor of what he called “social-ism.”





    Similarly, Bernie bros focus on social solidarity rather than political economy.

    But even this watered down spirit of “we’re all in it together” — whether you call it socialism or nationalism — can do enormous damage. It is very hard to reconcile with democracy and the rule of law, unless there’s a dire national crisis, and even then it may cause grave damage.

    I don’t want America to be Denmark. But at least Denmark recognizes that social democracy requires democracy, free speech and the rule of law to keep it from turning into Venezuela on the Baltic. I wouldn’t be so concerned about the rising support for socialism among young people in the United States, save for the fact it’s been accompanied by a modest decline in support for democracy, too.
  14. 05 Jan '18 01:30 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Too bizarre to comprehend... American right-wingers called Tony Blaire a socialist and now they’re claiming Scandanavia isn’t!

    Obama care is a communist nightmare, healthcare in Sweden isn’t.

    Of course Denmark
    Isn’t socialist (Neither was Tony Blair and neither is the end situation Sanders proposes).

    Scandanavia has implimented socialist policie ...[text shortened]... nimum wage is a goal.
    It’s not. It’s a means to an end.

    Norway doesn’t need it, the US does.
    Notice how socialism on a small scale, in the case of small countries like Denmark, fair better than the larger experiment with the EU.

    The US is more comparative to the EU than with small nation states in Europe.

    Also keep in mind that the US has become the military for the socialist nations in Europe, so they can spend all their money on things other than military concerns. Must be nice.

    I'm all for states in the US to adopt their own health care plans, even if it includes a single payer, states much like the size of, say, Denmark. However, I'm not in favor of a nationwide implementation for all, especially for conservative states who don't wish it.

    And that is the rub. Should we force states to adopt certain policies they disagree with, or should we allow them the self determination to succeed or fail on their own?
  15. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    05 Jan '18 03:02
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Despite complete economic destruction, socialism in Venezuela is more popular than ever. That is the terrifying part.

    From the LA Times.


    It’s a puzzle. Over the last decade, Venezuela has supplanted Cuba as the Shangri-La of the American left. Not long ago, self-declared socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders insisted that the American dream was more achieva ...[text shortened]... ates, save for the fact it’s been accompanied by a modest decline in support for democracy, too.
    Maybe you should look how bad off people were before this socialism you are referring to?

    Also, not everyone’s agreed that it’s political mismanagement that’s causing the problems.

    Also worth of note: many capitalist economies have down periods.
    How many citizens in the US live in poverty?
    Who were all those beggers and mentally ill people I saw sleeping on the streets of Southern Las vegas?