Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 10:46
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-recommendation-of-herman-cain-is-utterly-reckless/2019/04/06/9ceb30d8-57c2-11e9-8ef3-fbd41a2ce4d5_story.html?utm_term=.660c57e46671

    This is what people should be paying attention to. Not something idiotic he said that has absolutely no impact whatsoever but something idiotic he does that can potentially ruin some institution and even affect the rest of the world.

    Trump proposes Herman Cain for a position on the Federal Reserve's board of Governors. The fact that Herman Cain is obviously retarded is well known. You should be worried that Trump tries to, yet again, place an empty headed shell of a person in a position of power that would do whatever he dictates it to do.


    And this is a question from a non-american: how the hell do you allow your president to have so much freakin power? He nominates supreme court judges, he appoints heads of institutions, he orders military strikes without a declaration of war (what?!) now he meddles with the Federal Reserve?
  2. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 11:11
    @zahlanzi said
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-recommendation-of-herman-cain-is-utterly-reckless/2019/04/06/9ceb30d8-57c2-11e9-8ef3-fbd41a2ce4d5_story.html?utm_term=.660c57e46671

    This is what people should be paying attention to. Not something idiotic he said that has absolutely no impact whatsoever but something idiotic he does that can potentially ruin some institution ...[text shortened]... ders military strikes without a declaration of war (what?!) now he meddles with the Federal Reserve?
    just who do you think should make these calls? LOL...you do understand the president is elected by the people?
  3. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 11:22
    @mott-the-hoople said
    just who do you think should make these calls? LOL...you do understand the president is elected by the people?
    I'm not going to bother explaining separation of powers to a dumbass like you. Be quiet and let the grownups talk.
  4. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 12:071 edit
    @zahlanzi said
    I'm not going to bother explaining separation of powers to a dumbass like you. Be quiet and let the grownups talk.
    yes, the constitution grants certain powers to each branch. You are complaining about the president using the powers granted by the constitution. A very ignorant viewpoint to say the least.
  5. Standard membervivify
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    08 Apr '19 13:27
    @zahlanzi said
    And this is a question from a non-american: how the hell do you allow your president to have so much freakin power? He nominates supreme court judges, he appoints heads of institutions, he orders military strikes without a declaration of war (what?!) now he meddles with the Federal Reserve?
    It was assumed by the Founders that on openly corrupt person like Trump could never take office; that's one reason for the Electoral College, to stop such a man from ever being elected into power.

    The Founders also never imagined a scenario where all 3 branches of U.S. government would bow to the bidding of one man, like most of Trump's presidency before the midterms. Separation of powers is completely useless when one party controls all branches.

    Simply put, even scumbags like Nixon had at least some level of shame; some level modicum of integrity where the powers of president never seemed too excessive. It took a Trump to shine a spotlight on how just how flawed the U.S. presidency is. If america had a Trump in the 1800's, I'm pretty sure some drastic changes would've been made to never such a thing happens again.
  6. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 13:50
    @vivify said
    It was assumed by the Founders that on openly corrupt person like Trump could never take office; that's one reason for the Electoral College, to stop such a man from ever being elected into power.

    The Founders also never imagined a scenario where all 3 branches of U.S. government would bow to the bidding of one man, like most of Trump's presidency before the midterms. Se ...[text shortened]... 1800's, I'm pretty sure some drastic changes would've been made to never such a thing happens again.
    “openly corrupt”...democrats have been trying to overthrow Trump since before he was elected. Why dont you tell them about some of this corruption you know of?

    Instead they tried to frame him with a false russia collusion hoax. Now people are going to go to prison for corruption...but its not Trump.
  7. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 14:32
    @vivify said
    It was assumed by the Founders that on openly corrupt person like Trump could never take office; that's one reason for the Electoral College, to stop such a man from ever being elected into power.

    The Founders also never imagined a scenario where all 3 branches of U.S. government would bow to the bidding of one man, like most of Trump's presidency before the midterms. Se ...[text shortened]... 1800's, I'm pretty sure some drastic changes would've been made to never such a thing happens again.
    A system that relies on the good will of one person is not a good system.
    Any system that can be broken by one person that doesn't in fact have good will or shame is not a good system.

    I doubt the founding fathers didn't think an openly corrupt person like Trump could slip through and get elected. That there wouldn't be a time where you could have sufficient power hungry people in positions of power, hungry to get more while not caring who they hurt.

    They made the best system they could, to account for the issues they faced at that time with the clear instruction that it should be amended and changed as the times require. Do you think they ever thought the president should be allowed to order nuclear strikes?


    Trump is here and he is shining a light on how flawed your system is. What do you plan to do about it? Talk some more about the mueller probe? Stormy Daniels? Or start paying attention to stuff that actually matters?
  8. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 14:50
    @zahlanzi said
    A system that relies on the good will of one person is not a good system.
    Any system that can be broken by one person that doesn't in fact have good will or shame is not a good system.

    I doubt the founding fathers didn't think an openly corrupt person like Trump could slip through and get elected. That there wouldn't be a time where you could have sufficient power hun ...[text shortened]... about the mueller probe? Stormy Daniels? Or start paying attention to stuff that actually matters?
    What stuff actually matters? the ending of ISIS? Highest employment rate for blacks? for women? stopping Korea from lobbing nuclear missiles?

    Just what matters?
  9. Standard membervivify
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    08 Apr '19 15:361 edit
    @zahlanzi said
    A system that relies on the good will of one person is not a good system.
    Any system that can be broken by one person that doesn't in fact have good will or shame is not a good system.

    I doubt the founding fathers didn't think an openly corrupt person like Trump could slip through and get elected. That there wouldn't be a time where you could have sufficient power hun ...[text shortened]... about the mueller probe? Stormy Daniels? Or start paying attention to stuff that actually matters?
    The problem isn't with government. It's with the American people. No matter how perfect a government you have in place, it fails if the people have no interest in upholding the rules or ideals of that government. A president firing two government officials in order to impede his own federal investigation should be an impeachable offense; but when his supporters do not care, this isn't a failing of government, it's a failing as a people.

    The issues are far deeper than the schematics of government.
  10. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 15:41
    @vivify said
    The problem isn't with government. It's with the American people. No matter how perfect a government you have in place, it fails if the people have no interest in upholding the rules or ideals of that government. A president firing two people in order to impede his own federal investigation should be an impeachable offense; but when his supporters do not care, this isn't a ...[text shortened]... nment, it's a failing as a people.

    The issues are far deeper than the schematics of government.
    those two people are probably among the criminal referrals to be handed down today. We do have laws and a system. The democrats have refused to relinquish power to the properly elected president.

    You are stating lies.
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    08 Apr '19 19:13
    @mott-the-hoople said
    What stuff actually matters? the ending of ISIS? Highest employment rate for blacks? for women? stopping Korea from lobbing nuclear missiles?

    Just what matters?
    Someone please answer what actually matters. Good response, Mott, but this is outside of a liberal logic. Or facts. Or rationale.
  12. Subscriberchessturdonline
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    08 Apr '19 19:421 edit
    @mott-the-hoople said
    What stuff actually matters? the ending of ISIS? Highest employment rate for blacks? for women? stopping Korea from lobbing nuclear missiles?

    Just what matters?
    Well said.
    They just hate Trump because in Libtardia the land of pansies they are told to hate him regardless of his accomplishments.
  13. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 20:06
    @vivify said
    The problem isn't with government. It's with the American people. No matter how perfect a government you have in place, it fails if the people have no interest in upholding the rules or ideals of that government. A president firing two government officials in order to impede his own federal investigation should be an impeachable offense; but when his supporters do not care, ...[text shortened]... nment, it's a failing as a people.

    The issues are far deeper than the schematics of government.
    in this case, the immediate problem is with the government. you can't expect the people of Kentucky to foresee (or care) that Mitch McConnel is unilateraly blocking the senate, or the rest of the US to suffer because people from Kentucky continue to vote him into office. It's not just the presidency, you have dumb rules like these all over the place. One person can block things from being put up to a vote in the senate? Seriously?

    You can't expect politicians to vote for the people if there is no limit to how much money (bribes) they can receive in their campaigns.

    Nobody could have predicted just how bad Trump would be. Many people that voted for him did so because he promised them jobs and couldn't believe there are no checks in place to keep him from doing the horrible crap he bragged about.


    "No matter how perfect a government you have in place,"
    But you don't have a perfect government in place so what are you talking about. It's a horrible system, a broken system.

    "A president firing two government officials in order to impede his own federal investigation should be an impeachable offense"
    But since you allow Mitch McConnel (senate majority leader) to have so much damn power and since you allow gerrymandering, odds are great the republicans won't loose the Senate for a thousand years more.

    "it fails if the people have no interest in upholding the rules or ideals of that government."
    the people can't do jack. the people can only vote someone out of office in several years. And suppose you vote Mitch out of office or Trump? If you don't change the system in a couple of years you get another turtle or orange baboon and you do this all over again.

    I don't understand what you are arguing for? A vague mobilization of the american people to do something vague? I am pointing to real problems.
  14. Joined
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    08 Apr '19 20:15
    @zahlanzi said
    in this case, the immediate problem is with the government. you can't expect the people of Kentucky to foresee (or care) that Mitch McConnel is unilateraly blocking the senate, or the rest of the US to suffer because people from Kentucky continue to vote him into office. It's not just the presidency, you have dumb rules like these all over the place. One person can block t ...[text shortened]... ? A vague mobilization of the american people to do something vague? I am pointing to real problems.
    You are just totally ignorant of how our govt woks. Hint: McConnell didn't just big boy the other senators...THEY voted him in.

    And this system isnt perfect, but it is the best the world has ever known! And all your crying when you dont get your way is just immature.
  15. Standard membervivify
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    08 Apr '19 20:45
    @zahlanzi said
    I don't understand what you are arguing for? A vague mobilization of the american people to do something vague? I am pointing to real problems.
    My point is that the U.S. government is entirely dependent on voters making sound decisions. No change can happen once the voters don't care their officials are habitual liars. You once posted a video of a woman who admitted to Sanders she supports Trump even though she knows he's a liar.

    This is the problem. Creating rules stopping McConnell from having so much power is useless without people with the integrity to enforce it; laws aren't magical forces that stop wrongdoing.

    Trump has already broken the Emoluments Clause, but there's no one enforcing legal action. Trump Obstructed justice multiple times, but no one is enforcing legal action.

    And the reason there's no legal action? Trump voters don't care about broken laws, so there's zero pressure to follow them.

    Again: the U.S. has a culture problem, one that allows for white supremacists and law breakers to reign. It's much deeper than government needinf better rules.

    I'm not sure what can be done about that.
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