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  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    03 Jun '19 21:41
    Marissa Korbel (a rape victim) has written an honest explanation about
    why many women respond to being threatened by rape or actually raped
    in ways that may confuse people (mostly men) who don't understand women's psychology.
    "Why women are nice to men who rape them"

    https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a19158567/what-is-rape/

    "Sometimes You Make Your Rapist Breakfast
    Inside the controversial—and often confusing—"tending instinct" of women."

    "I know women who have asked their rapists to use a condom, even
    offering one of their own. I know women who have said yes after
    being worn down all night, over and over. You can only push a man
    off you so many times. You can only say “not now, no thanks, I don’t
    want to” so many ways. I, too, have had sex I didn’t want because
    sex was the least bad option. Sex was a known variable. Think of it
    as a harm reduction tactic. Fighting and screaming and kicking and
    yelling at a man? Unknown outcomes. Would he hit me back?
    Would he let me go? Would I fight and lose? If I lost, would he have
    sex with me anyway, only more violently?"

    "Let me be clear: I have been a repeated victim of sexual violence.
    I just didn’t respond the way that [self-defense] class trained me to
    respond, either before or after taking it."

    "As it turns out, fight or flight is more complicated than originally thought.
    More recent studies suggest that the response is actually more like
    fight, flight, freeze or appease."

    "Taylor found that the stress response in women produced much
    lower adrenaline and testosterone than in men. Women felt less
    fear when threatened, and because of that, they responded differently
    than the old punch and run. They called this new response “befriend and tend.”
    Often, women calm their aggressors down, and try to tend to the
    emotional needs of themselves and others, instead of escalating by
    violence, or attempting to flee.

    Nobody has determined whether this is a biological or sociological difference.
    But it’s a real difference. Women tend to freeze, appease, befriend."

    "I responded to threats [of rape] in a different way. I have left my body.
    I have tried to bargain, saying yes to the parts I could endure.
    I have told myself that experiences that I didn’t enjoy or even technically
    consent to were not, in fact, violations; that it wasn’t that bad."

    "Those moments where women say no, but men know better? ...
    We think we’re seeing a fictional take on reality, but what we’re
    actually seeing is his fiction. She says no, but she doesn’t mean it.
    He knows better than she does what she wants. She wants him,
    he just has to keep pushing."

    "Yes, the whole stereotype of good girls saying no until they say yes
    (after cajoling) is rape culture, but it’s possible that it’s showing us a
    real thing: the tending instinct in action."

    "If I had different hormones, a different body. If I responded to stress
    by punching the way I was trained. While I’ve never made my rapist
    breakfast, I recognize all too easily that if I were in the situation
    described in that comic, I might."

    I can readily understand, intellectually and emotionally, what she describes.
    Marissa Korbel has written honestly about the vulnerability that most women share.
    She does not pretend that she could become a martial arts expert
    capable of defending herself alone in most situations of assault.
    She does not pretend that she was a Perfect Victim (from the view
    of the police or the prosecutor). Her honesty shows her moral courage.

    Women are not and should not be expected to live up to unrealistic standards of perfection.
    Women make mistakes. Women show weakness. Yet no woman deserves to be raped.
    And no woman deserves an absence of sympathy after she's been raped.
  2. Joined
    05 Nov '06
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    81911
    03 Jun '19 22:151 edit
    @duchess64 said
    Marissa Korbel (a rape victim) has written an honest explanation about
    why many women respond to being threatened by rape or actually raped
    in ways that may confuse people (mostly men) who don't understand women's psychology.
    "Why women are nice to men who rape them"

    https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a19158567/what-is-rape/

    "Sometimes You Make Your Rap ...[text shortened]... no woman deserves to be raped.
    And no woman deserves an absence of sympathy after she's been raped.
    ­čśéhunny you as fuked up as a soup sandwich.
  3. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
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    2120
    03 Jun '19 22:33
    @mott-the-hoople said
    ­čśéhunny you as fuked up as a soup sandwich.
    The sexist troll Mott-the-Hoopie shows his usual abysmal comprehension of women.

    Marissa Korbel points out that women tend NOT to respond exactly as men would
    in similar situations of being threatened. That does not necessarily that men's
    responses must be right and women's responses must be wrong.
  4. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    13126
    03 Jun '19 22:351 edit
    If you do not leave right now, I will call the police. Seems easy enough.

    Oh but wait maybe women are not smart enough to come up with this one.
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
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    2120
    03 Jun '19 22:472 edits
    @eladar said
    If you do not leave right now, I will call the police. Seems easy enough.

    Oh but wait maybe women are not smart enough to come up with this one.
    Eladar spews more idiotic misogynistic nonsense.

    How is a woman supposed to call the police when the man going to rape her has
    made sure that she cannot reach her phone, let alone have enough time to dial it?

    Ms Eladar: I will call the police.
    Rapist: If you try, then the police can start a murder investigation when they get here.
    If that works for you, then it works for me.

    Stop blaming women and girls for being raped by men.
  6. Joined
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    13126
    03 Jun '19 22:51
    @duchess64 said
    Eladar spews more idiotic misogynistic nonsense.

    How is a woman supposed to call the police when the man going to rape her has
    made sure that she cannot reach her phone, let alone have enough time to dial it?

    Ms Eladar: I will call the police.
    Rapist: If you try, then the police can start a murder investigation when they get here.
    If that works for you, then it works for me.

    Stop blaming women and girls for being raped by men.
    If that is the case then you know you are with a real bad guy, not just an average guy you would call a rapist.
  7. Joined
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    13126
    03 Jun '19 23:01
    @Duchess64

    Question for you..what percentage of men would you estimate that are rapists?
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    03 Jun '19 23:122 edits
    @eladar said
    If that is the case then you know you are with a real bad guy, not just an average guy you would call a rapist.
    "...not just an average guy you would call a rapist."
    --Eladar

    So Eladar apparently believes that the average rapist is such a nice guy that he
    would NOT attempt to use force to stop his intended victim from calling the police!
    Eladar apparently believes that the average rapist is NOT 'a real bad guy'.
    After all, he just uses force to enjoy sexual intercourse with a woman without her consent.

    Here's an earlier example of the Eladar's rape apologist attitudes:

    https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/rape-apologists-need-an-exercise-in-empathy-article.164843

    "Let's see. A couple goes out and gets drunk. She passes out and the boyfriend has sex with her anyhow.
    Sounds like something that might happen and most people would not consider rape."
    --Eladar (17 July 2015, "Rape Apologists Need an Exercise in Empathy" )
  9. Joined
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    03 Jun '19 23:31
    @Duchess64

    I am saying you believe an average guy is a rapist.

    Come now, answer my question. Or are you just a troll?

    What percentage of men do you believe to be rapists?
  10. Joined
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    Moves
    13126
    03 Jun '19 23:56
    Yeah just a useless troll who brings up rape subjects just to do what? Oh yeah troll.

    You must have a pathetic life to need to entertain yourself like this.
  11. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
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    2120
    04 Jun '19 00:03
    @eladar said
    @Duchess64

    I am saying you believe an average guy is a rapist.

    Come now, answer my question. Or are you just a troll?

    What percentage of men do you believe to be rapists?
    The abusive rape apologist Eladar hurls more insults and lies.

    "I am saying you believe an average guy is a rapist."
    --Eladar

    Can Eladar QUOTE where I allegedly wrote that?

    Brett Kavanaugh liked to present himself as an 'average guy' who 'loves beer'.
    According to Christine Blasey Ford, however, he attempted to rape her and almost succeeded.
    Some other women also accused him of sexual assault or misconduct.
  12. Joined
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    12925
    04 Jun '19 00:04
    @duchess64 said
    Marissa Korbel (a rape victim) has written an honest explanation about
    why many women respond to being threatened by rape or actually raped
    in ways that may confuse people (mostly men) who don't understand women's psychology.
    "Why women are nice to men who rape them"

    https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a19158567/what-is-rape/

    "Sometimes You Make Your Rap ...[text shortened]... no woman deserves to be raped.
    And no woman deserves an absence of sympathy after she's been raped.
    Thank you, duchess64. It's always good to hear from other perspectives, even if we cannot quite understand them from our own temperaments and instincts.
  13. Joined
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    12925
    04 Jun '19 01:08
    On the other hand, isn't the article mentioned in the OP somewhat misogynistic inasmuch as it promotes the notion that women are pandering, feeble-minded ninnies who just can't help themselves or can't manage to keep themselves out of dangerous situations?
  14. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    04 Jun '19 01:13
    @caesar-salad said
    On the other hand, isn't the article mentioned in the OP somewhat misogynistic inasmuch as it promotes the notion that women are pandering, feeble-minded ninnies who just can't help themselves or can't manage to keep themselves out of dangerous situations?
    Not at all. What a bizarre interpretation by Caesar-salad!

    Marissa Korbel's reassuring women who (like herself) have had self-defense
    training and still were raped that they have nothing about which to feel guilty.
    Women should not be blamed for being raped, and they should not blame themselves.
    I have to say that it's often easier to say that to a rape victim than for her to feel that way.
  15. Seongnam, S. Korea
    Joined
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    04 Jun '19 02:50
    Very interestign stuff.

    To me, this implies that you should probably never have a man over at your house alone like that unless he is your husband or family member.

    I mean, sure, you can read this article and think wow, we really need to revolutionize society and fix men! but, isn't some part of you a bit pessimist by now?

    After the whole #MeToo thing... Haven't we just learned that people are often garbage humans regardless of what they have tried to communicate to others..?

    Sometimes the solution is not more & more failed programs to indoctrinate men.

    Sometimes it is just distance and common sense.
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