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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    04 Jun '19 03:26
    @philokalia said
    Very interestign stuff.

    To me, this implies that you should probably never have a man over at your house alone like that unless he is your husband or family member.

    I mean, sure, you can read this article and think wow, we really need to revolutionize society and fix men! but, isn't some part of you a bit pessimist by now?

    After the whole #MeToo thing... ...[text shortened]... more & more failed programs to indoctrinate men.

    Sometimes it is just distance and common sense.
    Philokalia apparently wrongly assumes that women and girls need
    not be afraid of being raped by their husbands or family members.

    Philokalia apparently believes that teaching men not to rape means 'indoctrinating' men.
  2. Joined
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    04 Jun '19 03:30
    @Duchess64

    What percentage of men are rapists in your mind?
  3. Standard membershavixmir
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    04 Jun '19 03:48
    @eladar said
    If you do not leave right now, I will call the police. Seems easy enough.

    Oh but wait maybe women are not smart enough to come up with this one.
    You really are moronic on such a base level, it’s hard to explain things to you.

    It’s all very well thinking that everyone suffers from a hero-complex, but besides being stupid, it generally leads to death.

    And, believe it or not, most people don’t want to die.
  4. Standard membershavixmir
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    04 Jun '19 03:52
    @eladar said
    @Duchess64

    What percentage of men are rapists in your mind?
    Statistically 1 in 10 women is raped in the home and 1 in 5 abused to some extent.

    Google the figures. It’s astounding.
  5. Joined
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    04 Jun '19 04:03
    @shavixmir said
    You really are moronic on such a base level, it’s hard to explain things to you.

    It’s all very well thinking that everyone suffers from a hero-complex, but besides being stupid, it generally leads to death.

    And, believe it or not, most people don’t want to die.
    Then just text the police. So not warn him.

    Oh yeah she cannot go to the restroom and use her phone?
  6. Joined
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    04 Jun '19 04:04
    @shavixmir said
    Statistically 1 in 10 women is raped in the home and 1 in 5 abused to some extent.

    Google the figures. It’s astounding.
    I asked what percent of men are rapists in her mind. Many rapes never get reported.
  7. Zugzwang
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    04 Jun '19 04:10
    @eladar said
    Then just text the police. So not warn him.

    Oh yeah she cannot go to the restroom and use her phone?
    Eladar believes that rapists are so stupid that they never would even consider
    the possibility that a woman allowed to leave their sight might try to contact the police.

    Unfortunately, most rapists seem much less stupid than Eladar.
  8. Joined
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    04 Jun '19 04:26
    @duchess64 said
    Eladar believes that rapists are so stupid that they never would even consider
    the possibility that a woman allowed to leave their sight might try to contact the police.

    Unfortunately, most rapists seem much less stupid than Eladar.
    I am thinking D pegs it at about 33 to 50 percent of men are rapists.
  9. Zugzwang
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    04 Jun '19 04:292 edits
    How should a rapist be defined?

    At one extreme, only as someone who has been convicted of rape, not
    of any lesser charge of sexual assault.
    This legalistic view ignores the reality that many rapists can accept plea bargains on lesser charges.

    On the other extreme, some feminists regard about all men as potential rapists
    (they are physically capable of rape) and condemn men for even fantasizing.
    I don't regard it as evil for a man to fantasize about his favorite actress or model.

    So I think that it's most relevant to discuss men with rapist attitudes.
    These men would enjoy raping a woman if they felt certain of avoiding punishment.

    There"s a moral difference between a man who has no desire to rape because
    he knows it's wrong and a man who refrains from rape only out of fear of punishment.

    Surveys have found that a large minority of men ADMIT that they would
    rape a woman if they felt confident of not getting caught. Given the stigma of
    admitting to be a rapist, even in a survey, it's reasonable to believe that more
    men, perhaps most, would like to rape if they believed there was no risk.

    What would happen if rape were not illegal?
    I expect that almost every woman or girl would be raped, most likely repeatedly.
    I expect that many, likely most, men would rape at least once . Some men
    would enjoy raping as many women as possible.

    I would not expect a world where almost all men would refuse to rape
    when it's legal. So if most men are deterred from rape only by fear of punishment,
    then do they deserve moral credit if they don't rape?
  10. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    04 Jun '19 04:40
    @duchess64 said
    Philokalia apparently wrongly assumes that women and girls need
    not be afraid of being raped by their husbands or family members.

    Philokalia apparently believes that teaching men not to rape means 'indoctrinating' men.
    Well, at that rate, why not add that boys should also be afraid to the list of things.

    ... and the actual meaning of what I was saying earlier was along the lines of these programs that all exist to lecture men, day in day out, as I was subjected to for hours & hours of my life, do not actually work, but in order to make them work, they start to resemble indoctrination.

    Any form of excessive & preachy talk becomes a sort of indoctrination, does it not?
  11. Zugzwang
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    04 Jun '19 04:52
    @eladar said
    I am thinking D pegs it at about 33 to 50 percent of men are rapists.
    Some South African surveys have found that, at least in some areas,
    25 to 40 percent of men ADMITTED to having raped at least once.
  12. Joined
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    04 Jun '19 04:54
    @duchess64 said
    How should a rapist be defined?

    At one extreme, only as someone who has been convicted of rape, not
    of any lesser charge of sexual assault.
    This legalistic view ignores the reality that many rapists can accept plea bargains on lesser charges.

    On the other extreme, some feminists regard about all men as potential rapists
    (they are physically capable of rape) and con ...[text shortened]... eterred from rape only by fear of punishment,
    then do they deserve moral credit if they don't rape?
    As you define rape. I asked what you believe, which means using your definition of rape.
  13. Standard membershavixmir
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    04 Jun '19 04:56
    @duchess64 said
    How should a rapist be defined?

    At one extreme, only as someone who has been convicted of rape, not
    of any lesser charge of sexual assault.
    This legalistic view ignores the reality that many rapists can accept plea bargains on lesser charges.

    On the other extreme, some feminists regard about all men as potential rapists
    (they are physically capable of rape) and con ...[text shortened]... eterred from rape only by fear of punishment,
    then do they deserve moral credit if they don't rape?
    Oh, I don’t know about these stats.

    I’m sure there’s a large portion of men who don’t rape, because they don’t want to hurt anyone (physically or psychologically).

    To suggest only the threat of punishment deters them is rather cynical.

    I reckon a majority of men don’t fantasize about rape (or watch staged rape porn).
    I’m pretty certain most men would prefer a woman (wife of a boss or something) to offer themself willingly. And I’m equally sure porn-stats will cough up this perspective.

    But then again, I’m nearly 50 and the closest I come to watching porn these days is the Daily Show.
  14. Zugzwang
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    04 Jun '19 04:591 edit
    @philokalia said
    Well, at that rate, why not add that boys should also be afraid to the list of things.

    ... and the actual meaning of what I was saying earlier was along the lines of these programs that all exist to lecture men, day in day out, as I was subjected to for hours & hours of my life, do not actually work, but in order to make them work, they start to resemble indo ...[text shortened]... ination.

    Any form of excessive & preachy talk becomes a sort of indoctrination, does it not?
    If Philokalia bothered to read the original post, then he might notice that
    this thread (quoting a woman who has been repeatedly raped) is about the
    psychology of women, not of boys.

    If Philokalia wants to start a thread about the sexual abuse of boys by
    Christian clergymen, then go ahead.

    Note that Philokalia likes to downplay rape committed by Christian white men
    and exaggerate rape committed by non-white, particularly Muslim, men.
  15. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    04 Jun '19 05:00
    @duchess64 said
    Some South African surveys have found that, at least in some areas,
    25 to 40 percent of men ADMITTED to having raped at least once.
    Would this not be the case because of their broken & backwards culture?

    Surely, nowhere near 40% of men from Brainerd, Minnesota or Sapporo, Japan have done anything like that.

    But here is a great resource full of lots of citations on the brutality and deviance of primitive life:

    https://psychohistory.com/books/the-origins-of-war-in-child-abuse/chapter-7-child-abuse-homicide-and-raids-in-tribes/

    Lots of citations.

    Some of the material is pretty "beyond the Pale," without a shtetl in site, so much so that I am skeptical. But even if a fraction of it is true... well, hard to not believe that our culture has been a great advancement.
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