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Debates Forum

  1. 08 May '14 12:36
    In New Hampshire, a father attended a school board meeting where he voiced protest over the fact that his 14 year old daughter was forced to read a book with graphic sexual content. Although the book was pulled from use, apparently he went over the "2 minute time limit", and was promptly arrested.

    What was odd about the arrest was that the nervous party was the officer who arrested the man whose hands were shaking and voiced the fact he did not to have to arrest him.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/07/the-seven-words-the-man-who-was-arrested-at-a-school-board-meeting-says-the-officer-said-to-him/

    Then we see Common Core at work in US education once again. Indiana is the only state who opted out of Common Core. However, the federal government is now coercing them back into it by stating that federal dollars from the printing press of the Fed will be withheld if they continue this course of action.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/07/federal-govt-issues-warning-to-state-that-wants-to-opt-out-of-common-core/
  2. 08 May '14 13:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    In New Hampshire, a father attended a school board meeting where he voiced protest over the fact that his 14 year old daughter was forced to read a book with graphic sexual content. Although the book was pulled from use, apparently he went over the "2 minute time limit", and was promptly arrested.

    What was odd about the arrest was that the nervous party ...[text shortened]... om/stories/2014/05/07/federal-govt-issues-warning-to-state-that-wants-to-opt-out-of-common-core/
    I saw the video of the arrest. The gentleman is a lawyer, and kept pressing an issue, after being told his time was up, but he was calm and polite. I expect him to sue the police department over the arrest, which was obviously overreach.

    Does anyone read books used for assignments?
  3. 08 May '14 13:19
    Originally posted by whodey
    In New Hampshire, a father attended a school board meeting where he voiced protest over the fact that his 14 year old daughter was forced to read a book with graphic sexual content. Although the book was pulled from use, apparently he went over the "2 minute time limit", and was promptly arrested.

    What was odd about the arrest was that the nervous party ...[text shortened]... om/stories/2014/05/07/federal-govt-issues-warning-to-state-that-wants-to-opt-out-of-common-core/
    1: what is the connection between the two? why aren't they in two separate threads? what exactly are we supposed to debate?

    2: what are we supposed to debate about the first issue? it seems the book was withdrawn. do you feel like that man shouldn't have been arrested? it seems that from the article, he was asked numerous times to step down, and stop hijacking the parents meeting. do you feel that arbitrary rules are supposed to be broken at any point we feel like it? is a 2 minute time limit unreasonable?

    the man had his time to speak, he went over it. at that point the head of the meeting probably asked him to stop. he didn't. she called an officer, who asked the man to stop, he didn't. he even defied the officer to arrest him.

    what are we outraged about here? a minor disturbance of peace? the brief presence of a book that has since been removed?
  4. 08 May '14 13:25
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    1: what is the connection between the two? why aren't they in two separate threads? what exactly are we supposed to debate?

    2: what are we supposed to debate about the first issue? it seems the book was withdrawn. do you feel like that man shouldn't have been arrested? it seems that from the article, he was asked numerous times to step down, and stop hi ...[text shortened]... ut here? a minor disturbance of peace? the brief presence of a book that has since been removed?
    Who thought that book was appropriate for 9th graders?

    So parents who are involved and speak out ought to be arrested? Exceeding a time limit in an informal hearing isn't exactly a crime.
  5. 08 May '14 13:27
    Originally posted by whodey
    In New Hampshire, a father attended a school board meeting where he voiced protest over the fact that his 14 year old daughter was forced to read a book with graphic sexual content. Although the book was pulled from use, apparently he went over the "2 minute time limit", and was promptly arrested.

    What was odd about the arrest was that the nervous party ...[text shortened]... om/stories/2014/05/07/federal-govt-issues-warning-to-state-that-wants-to-opt-out-of-common-core/
    I saw the video. The guy was speaking when it was not his turn and kept going on and on in spite of several warnings to be quiet. Finally he was asked to leave. Had he not been asked to leave, one wonders if he would still be talking today. Then, he didn't leave even after several requests to leave. The police officer finally had to physically hold the guys wrist to get him to start moving toward the exit. If not for that, the guy might still be in the room today.

    Although I think it is ridiculous that 14 year-olds be assigned reading as explicit as the book in question, you have to figure there have to be some order in school meetings.

    If a person refuses to stop talking after being asked to stop, how long to you allow it to continue before asking that person to leave?

    And if a person has been asked to leave and that person refuses to leave, how long can they stay before they subject themselves to an arrest?
  6. 08 May '14 14:26
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Who thought that book was appropriate for 9th graders?

    So parents who are involved and speak out ought to be arrested? Exceeding a time limit in an informal hearing isn't exactly a crime.
    "Who thought that book was appropriate for 9th graders?"
    i can imagine how a young teacher wanted the teens to read something, anything, even though i don't believe it was. that is not the point though. obviously it was deemed inappropriate by a committee and was taken out. the book was no excuse to the man's actions. he hijacked a conversation, refused to play by a reasonable rule, refused to comply when asked politely by an officer.
    "Moments later, Baer was escorted outside and placed in handcuffs. According to WMUR-TV, he was charged with disorderly conduct because he did not immediately leave when asked by an officer."

    this is a minor incident from a country that wants to freakin teach creationism to its children. that is even more inappropriate. i haven't even followed on this piece of sensationalist trivial story but i doubt that man had to spent even one night in prison, otherwise it would have been mentioned in this awesome article.

    disrupting an assembly is. nobody will put you in jail if you litter, however if you are confronted by an officer, you flat out refuse to stop when politely asked to, and dare him to arrest you, well, maybe you are asking for it.
  7. 08 May '14 15:22
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "Who thought that book was appropriate for 9th graders?"
    i can imagine how a young teacher wanted the teens to read something, anything, .
    Just fail kids if they don't do their reading. Oh yeah, I forgot we are talking US education so failing too many kids is out of the question.
  8. 08 May '14 15:57
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Just fail kids if they don't do their reading. Oh yeah, I forgot we are talking US education so failing too many kids is out of the question.
    yes, because the point is not to broaden minds, just force children to do something out of fear of retribution that they will forget the second after the exam
  9. 08 May '14 17:01 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    1: what is the connection between the two? why aren't they in two separate threads? what exactly are we supposed to debate?

    2: what are we supposed to debate about the first issue? it seems the book was withdrawn. do you feel like that man shouldn't have been arrested? it seems that from the article, he was asked numerous times to step down, and stop hi ...[text shortened]... ut here? a minor disturbance of peace? the brief presence of a book that has since been removed?
    What is the connection between the two events? The connection is that freedom in the US has all but disappeared. Now the federal government will decide curriculum via Common Core, putting anything in it they damn well please. States that object will be coerced into conforming. No doubt, Indiana will fold at any moment. States no longer have freedom, that is, freedom to oppose the federal government regarding anything.

    With the father in question, we have begun to see that those who speak out are either ignored or will be arrested.

    Does this disturb anyone? No you say? To even ask how the two are related tells me that your head is implanted permanently in Big Brothers arse.
  10. 08 May '14 17:24
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    yes, because the point is not to broaden minds, just force children to do something out of fear of retribution that they will forget the second after the exam
    I would think the point of grades is to demonstrate mastery of the material. At the moment, passing a class does not mean a child is learning, just that he or she is old enough to move along.
  11. 08 May '14 22:02
    Originally posted by techsouth
    I saw the video. The guy was speaking when it was not his turn and kept going on and on in spite of several warnings to be quiet. Finally he was asked to leave. Had he not been asked to leave, one wonders if he would still be talking today. Then, he didn't leave even after several requests to leave. The police officer finally had to physically hold th ...[text shortened]... hat person refuses to leave, how long can they stay before they subject themselves to an arrest?
    I can't help but wonder if his position, not how much he spoke had something to do with the order to stop talking, and the order to leave.

    He was peaceful, and calm throughout. No violent ranting, no threats, barely raised his voice.

    Of course there has to be order, but arrest seems a bit over the top, and I wonder if anyone supporting the board's decision would have been held to the same standard.
  12. 09 May '14 00:33
    Originally posted by whodey
    What is the connection between the two events? The connection is that freedom in the US has all but disappeared. Now the federal government will decide curriculum via Common Core, putting anything in it they damn well please. States that object will be coerced into conforming. No doubt, Indiana will fold at any moment. States no longer have freedom, that ...[text shortened]... k how the two are related tells me that your head is implanted permanently in Big Brothers arse.
    "The connection is that freedom in the US has all but disappeared"
    so we jam two unrelated issues into the same thread and name it something unrelated to either. gotcha.


    that man wasn't arrested because he is the voice of freedom and the american way of life, he was arrested because he was a douchebag that couldn't understand a simple, reasonable rule.

    "freedom in the us has all but disappeared"
    yeah. you have the patriot act, guantanamo bay, a joke of an electoral system that should have been replaced a hundred years ago, nsa listening on private calls but this is the straw that broke the camel's back: the federal government implementing a stupid program.
  13. 09 May '14 00:36
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I would think the point of grades is to demonstrate mastery of the material. At the moment, passing a class does not mean a child is learning, just that he or she is old enough to move along.
    i am not talking about passing a grade, you are. i am talking about getting the facebook generation to read something, anything. perhaps they will develop a taste for reading and maybe one day read something of quality.

    forcing them to read some crap nobody cares about just because an old fart on the school board likes catcher in the rye is counter productive.

    one should learn how to learn in school. not how to be an obedient drone.
  14. 09 May '14 05:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    i am not talking about passing a grade, you are. i am talking about getting the facebook generation to read something, anything. perhaps they will develop a taste for reading and maybe one day read something of quality.

    forcing them to read some crap nobody cares about just because an old fart on the school board likes catcher in the rye is counter productive.

    one should learn how to learn in school. not how to be an obedient drone.
    If the facebook generation doesn't want to read their assignments, then let them fail. They have been enabled to be spoiled brats who are not expected to learn anything.
  15. 09 May '14 08:24
    Originally posted by Eladar
    If the facebook generation doesn't want to read their assignments, then let them fail. They have been enabled to be spoiled brats who are not expected to learn anything.
    how is that productive?