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  1. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    12 Apr '12 04:57
    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/218307-republicans-seeking-out-hispanics

    The article talks about separate attempts by Sen. Rubio and Sens. Hutchinson and Kyl to propose a "watered down" version of Democrats' DREAM Act that failed to pass in late 2010. In short, the bill would offer legal status to undocumented immigrants in exchange for college attendance or military service, unlike the DREAM Act, which would offer immediate citizenship. Of course, these GOP proposals would still make full citizenship a long-term, albeit difficult, possibility.

    Thoughts? In weighing pragmatism against preference here, I'm actually leaning towards supporting the idea, even if I would rather see the full-fledged DREAM Act in place instead. But at the least, I understand critics of that perspective.
  2. 12 Apr '12 11:16
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/218307-republicans-seeking-out-hispanics

    The article talks about separate attempts by Sen. Rubio and Sens. Hutchinson and Kyl to propose a "watered down" version of Democrats' DREAM Act that failed to pass in late 2010. In short, the bill would offer legal status to undocumented immigrants in exchange for college att ...[text shortened]... ged DREAM Act in place instead. But at the least, I understand critics of that perspective.
    So, you would rather see "immediate citizenship" for roughly 12 million illegals ? How would this be beneficial to the citizens of the United States in your opinion ?
  3. 12 Apr '12 11:50
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    So, you would rather see "immediate citizenship" for roughly 12 million illegals ? How would this be beneficial to the citizens of the United States in your opinion ?
    I thought the arguments were only about what is best for the illegals and not the citizens of the US.
  4. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    12 Apr '12 13:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    So, you would rather see "immediate citizenship" for roughly 12 million illegals ? How would this be beneficial to the citizens of the United States in your opinion ?
    I would support the opportunity for undocumented immigrants, who came to the United States as children with their parents and who have grown up as Americans in all but name only, to obtain "immediate citizenship" after they complete a college education or serve in the military, yes, rather than have to go through additional years of bureaucracy. From a practical perspective, I would prefer not to deport these intelligent, hard-working people to another country in a massive "brain-drain" policy, nor would I prefer to deport courageous, hard-working people who have served in our military and risked their lives.

    Now, would you care to weigh in on the Republicans' alternative to this legislation?
  5. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    12 Apr '12 13:40
    Originally posted by whodey
    I thought the arguments were only about what is best for the illegals and not the citizens of the US.
    Do you think the United States has a practical interest in deporting veterans or college-educated people who have no criminal background?
  6. 12 Apr '12 14:17
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    I would support the opportunity for undocumented immigrants, who came to the United States as children with their parents and who have grown up as Americans in all but name only, to obtain "immediate citizenship" after they complete a college education or serve in the military, yes, rather than have to go through additional years of bureaucracy. From a p ...[text shortened]... es.

    Now, would you care to weigh in on the Republicans' alternative to this legislation?
    Thank you for not answering my question.
    Which was,
    "How would this be beneficial to the citizens of the United States in your opinion ?
  7. 12 Apr '12 21:01
    I've never understood why military service wasn't a legitimate path to citizenship.
  8. 12 Apr '12 21:05
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I've never understood why military service wasn't a legitimate path to citizenship.
    I guess because the liberals are the ones pushing for citizenship and it is liberals who usually share an anti-military sentiment.

    If they got over their hang ups, maybe they could use it to get the GOP to go along with it.
  9. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    12 Apr '12 21:06
    It pains me that every piece of legislation passed in the USA pays tacit or overt homage to David Foster Wallace.
  10. 12 Apr '12 21:08
    Also, now that I am thinking of it, why only for college graduates? Why not for people who want to become mechanics or roofers or heavy equipment operators? Certainly you aren't trying to imply that the only people in the US who have value are veterans and college graduates.
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    12 Apr '12 22:20 / 1 edit
    Nvm
  12. 12 Apr '12 23:45
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Do you think the United States has a practical interest in deporting veterans or college-educated people who have no criminal background?
    No, but trying to work your way through all the government red tape in order to be a citizen is a nightmare. They are better off just staying an illegal.
  13. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    13 Apr '12 07:25
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Thank you for not answering my question.
    Thank you for refraining from passive-aggressive drivel and for contributing so substantively to this discussion.

    I focused on your at-best, misunderstood, and at-worst, mischaracterized, rhetorical paraphrase of my position: "So, you would rather see 'immediate citizenship' for roughly 12 million illegals?"

    But if you're not interested in moral and ethical arguments, perhaps you would be consoled by the fact that economic projections suggest enacting the DREAM Act as originally written (i.e., with an easier path to citizenship) would have a net decrease in federal deficits in the short- and mid-terms.
  14. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    13 Apr '12 07:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Also, now that I am thinking of it, why only for college graduates? Why not for people who want to become mechanics or roofers or heavy equipment operators? Certainly you aren't trying to imply that the only people in the US who have value are veterans and college graduates.
    My sense was that the DREAM Act grew out of a belief that college graduates (including community college graduates, who are more likely to pursue technical careers) and military veterans would be individuals most likely to win over support from both ends of the political spectrum.
  15. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    13 Apr '12 07:32
    Originally posted by whodey
    No, but trying to work your way through all the government red tape in order to be a citizen is a nightmare. They are better off just staying an illegal.
    I don't understand your comment, as a sarcastic throw-away remark or as a serious observation.