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Debates Forum

  1. 15 Aug '11 20:15
    BEIJING — Aided by at least $43 million in assistance from the government of Massachusetts and an innovative solar energy technology, Evergreen Solar emerged in the last three years as the third-largest maker of solar panels in the United States.

    But now the company is closing its main American factory, laying off the 800 workers by the end of March and shifting production to a joint venture with a Chinese company in central China. Evergreen cited the much higher government support available in China.

    The factory closing in Devens, Mass., which Evergreen announced earlier this week, has set off political recriminations and finger-pointing in Massachusetts. And it comes just as President Hu Jintao of China is scheduled for a state visit next week to Washington, where the agenda is likely to include tensions between the United States and China over trade and energy policy.
  2. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    15 Aug '11 22:29
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    BEIJING — Aided by at least $43 million in assistance from the government of Massachusetts and an innovative solar energy technology, Evergreen Solar emerged in the last three years as the third-largest maker of solar panels in the United States.

    But now the company is closing its main American factory, laying off the 800 workers by the end of March ...[text shortened]... is likely to include tensions between the United States and China over trade and energy policy.
    What's not quoted is the other reason why they moved to China....Free Trade agreement with China.

    Because you signed a free trade agreement with China, Evergreen can go to china where they get better gov't grants and cheaper labour and sell it back to you yanks without import tarriffs being applied to them. Import tarrifs would make it more expensive to buy.

    But, thanks to your government and those who support it, you've given companies like evergreen the green light to export the manufacturing to lower wage countries.

    So, don't blame business...blame your gov't and the idiotic taxpayers who have voted them in!!
  3. 15 Aug '11 22:30
    My first thought is that the company is just looking to increase profits like so many others. This just shows the failure of Obama and congress to promote green jobs in this country.
    Economics is about incentives. Protectionism is the only way to provide the proper incentives to stop this outsourcing. China has been criticized for having a policy of protectionism simply by keeping their currency artificially low. If they are doing it why shouldn't we?

    On the other hand, by keeping their currency low they are making our currency higher and that may be why our government tolerates that. Our Federal Reserve System just squanders it from us though, by monetizing debt and other things (bailing out banks domestic and foreign) we don't really see a higher dollar at all. We are really seeing the opposite so only the elites really benefit because they can screw us with less blow back.
  4. 16 Aug '11 00:59
    Originally posted by uzless
    What's not quoted is the other reason why they moved to China....Free Trade agreement with China.

    Because you signed a free trade agreement with China, Evergreen can go to china where they get better gov't grants and cheaper labour and sell it back to you yanks without import tarriffs being applied to them. Import tarrifs would make it more expensive to b ...[text shortened]... don't blame business...blame your gov't and the idiotic taxpayers who have voted them in!!
    wasn't blaming anyone, was I? Just stating a fact, since I too lost a job to China.. actually I have lost a few jobs to china come to think of it....
  5. 16 Aug '11 01:08
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    wasn't blaming anyone, was I? Just stating a fact, since I too lost a job to China.. actually I have lost a few jobs to china come to think of it....
    Just wondering. How does China have money to loan? How does any nation? As soon as the ink was dry on the debt ceiling bill, we loaned a truckload of money to some other nation.

    Does anyone really have any money? Or is this whole thing some kind of shell game?
  6. 16 Aug '11 01:17
    The recession has hit everybody really hard. My neighbor got a pre-declined credit card in the mail. Wives are having sex with their husbands because they can't afford batteries. CEO's are playing miniature golf. Exxon-Mobil laid off 25 Congressmen. A stripper was killed when her audience showered her with rolls of pennies. I saw a Mormon with only one wife. If the bank returns your check marked "Insufficient Funds," you have to call them and ask if they meant you or them
  7. 16 Aug '11 01:19
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Just wondering. How does China have money to loan? How does any nation? As soon as the ink was dry on the debt ceiling bill, we loaned a truckload of money to some other nation.

    Does anyone really have any money? Or is this whole thing some kind of shell game?
    That's a good question,,,,
    My neighbor is Chinese, I see him maybe 1x a year..this year he came back for 1 month, but he was looking for a coal contract here from the states. I admit I know nothing about China, or it's resources, maybe they have a huge stash of gold...
    I think we also borrow from the UK?
    Trump has the Chinese pegged pretty good.
  8. 16 Aug '11 01:26
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    That's a good question,,,,
    My neighbor is Chinese, I see him maybe 1x a year..this year he came back for 1 month, but he was looking for a coal contract here from the states. I admit I know nothing about China, or it's resources, maybe they have a huge stash of gold...
    I think we also borrow from the UK?
    Trump has the Chinese pegged pretty good.
    Whatever the answer is, China is as dependent on us as we are on them, for the present.

    They have massive public works projects, and a peasant population that is dirt poor, and resenting the new middle class of the cities. The only thing that keeps this thing running is fear of the government, which fairly recently ran down protesters with tanks.

    I personally think that companies moving their operations to China are shortsighted and stupid. The cheap labor and lack of regulations may seem attractive now, but when the government shows up at the door, and places everyone under arrest, the decision will not seem so great.
  9. 16 Aug '11 01:27
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    That's a good question,,,,
    My neighbor is Chinese, I see him maybe 1x a year..this year he came back for 1 month, but he was looking for a coal contract here from the states. I admit I know nothing about China, or it's resources, maybe they have a huge stash of gold...
    I think we also borrow from the UK?
    Trump has the Chinese pegged pretty good.
    We are probably borrowing from Greece and Portugal.
  10. 16 Aug '11 04:14
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Just wondering. How does China have money to loan? How does any nation? As soon as the ink was dry on the debt ceiling bill, we loaned a truckload of money to some other nation.

    Does anyone really have any money? Or is this whole thing some kind of shell game?
    They have agreements to loan each other money to enslave entire populations. The only reason the blacks were set free is because economic slavery was more efficient. Now they can enslave all races.
    We owe Japan and they owe us at the same time. Look for my old thread "Japan's economic slavery".