Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    12 Nov '18 18:13
    @shavixmir said
    Why would you slap a kid’s arse?
    You're right. Silly me.

    It's not like that idea has ever occurred to anyone in the world's history.
  2. Germany
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    12 Nov '18 18:15
    @sh76 said
    You're right. Silly me.

    It's not like that idea has ever occurred to anyone in the world's history.
    Why would you rape someone?
  3. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    12 Nov '18 18:18
    @kazetnagorra said
    Why would you rape someone?
    Right

    cuz it's the same thing

    Except that rape has been punishable by death or long imprisonment through most of at least the last couple of millennia in most societies that we know about.
  4. Germany
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    12 Nov '18 18:23
    @sh76 said
    Right

    cuz it's the same thing

    Except that rape has been punishable by death or long imprisonment through most of at least the last couple of millennia in most societies that we know about.
    It's not the same thing. However, rape is both bad and common. Kind of like beating up children.

    That something was common in barbaric societies is hardly relevant in a modern society that aims to surpass the morality of cavemen. Marital rape was legal in most western societies until a few decades ago; the Bible allows or even encourages rape in certain situations.
  5. Joined
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    12 Nov '18 18:37
    @sh76 said
    It's really not.

    A flu shot may hurt. But it doesn't harm.
    If you raped a woman and used lubricant to prevent any vaginal tearing would that be harmful?
  6. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    12 Nov '18 18:38
    @metal-brain said
    If you raped a woman and used lubricant to prevent any vaginal tearing would that be harmful?
    Yes
  7. Joined
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    12 Nov '18 18:40
    @sh76 said
    Yes
    There is no physical harm, just psychological hurt. Hurting is harmful.
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    12 Nov '18 19:20
    @whodey said
    Spanking should not be labeled as "bad".

    The issue is not spanking, the issue is proper discipline.
    The issue is spanking.
    Read the thread title.
    Don't deflect.

    If you want to discuss discipline start a new thread.
  9. Joined
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    12 Nov '18 21:35
    @kazetnagorra said
    What made you conclude these children "only responded to spanking"?
    They listened and ceased from doing what it was they were spanked for.
  10. Joined
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    12 Nov '18 21:36
    @wolfgang59 said
    The issue is spanking.
    Read the thread title.
    Don't deflect.

    If you want to discuss discipline start a new thread.
    Spanking is either a form of discipline or abuse.

    The assumption on this thread is that it is always abuse.

    I disagree.
  11. Germany
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    12 Nov '18 22:05
    @whodey said
    They listened and ceased from doing what it was they were spanked for.
    I see. And you played out all the alternative non-violent scenarios out in your head?
  12. Zugzwang
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    12 Nov '18 23:111 edit
    @sh76 said
    Right

    cuz it's the same thing

    Except that rape has been punishable by death or long imprisonment through most of at least the last couple of millennia in most societies that we know about.
    (Sh76 replied to KazetNagorra.)

    "... rape has been punishable by death or long imprisonment ..."
    --Sh76

    Only in a small minority of cases. Almost all rapists are punished much less.
    Indeed, many, if not most, rapists are not punished at all.
  13. Standard membersh76
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    12 Nov '18 23:462 edits
    @kazetnagorra said
    It's not the same thing. However, rape is both bad and common. Kind of like beating up children.

    That something was common in barbaric societies is hardly relevant in a modern society that aims to surpass the morality of cavemen. Marital rape was legal in most western societies until a few decades ago; the Bible allows or even encourages rape in certain situations.
    "Beating up" is a ridiculous distortion of spanking.

    Hitting people in general is wrong, sure. So is confining them to a room against their will. So is confiscating their property without due process.

    Children don't react to the same incentives as adults, though. They have to be handled in different ways than you'd deal with adults. That's just reality.

    I have 5 children and I've never once raised my hand to any of them. And I don't plan to. But that's my decision based on the circumstances and based on my family and based on the natures of my children. I have confined them to their rooms and I have have confiscated their toys. It's called discipline and if you have children one day, you'll see why it's necessary.

    To me, there's no moral difference between a mild spanking and a grounding and a no allowance and a no TV/tablet/computer/whatever for x period of time. They're all variations on the same theme - discipline, which, when used smartly, is both necessary and good for the child. I don't see any of them as being inherently so much worse than the others.

    Obviously, there comes a point when it becomes abuse, which is why the conversation needs to be bifurcated. As long as it's not, it's well within the parents' discretion.
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    13 Nov '18 00:06
    @sh76 said
    "Beating up" is a ridiculous distortion of spanking.

    Hitting people in general is wrong, sure. So is confining them to a room against their will. So is confiscating their property without due process.

    Children don't react to the same incentives as adults, though. They have to be handled in different ways than you'd deal with adults. That's just reality.

    I have 5 childre ...[text shortened]... conversation needs to be bifurcated. As long as it's not, it's well within the parents' discretion.
    The most heinous crimes are punishable with incarceration - removal of liberty - not
    with corporal punishment. Should we not give our children the same basic right?
  15. Standard membersh76
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    13 Nov '18 02:50
    @wolfgang59 said
    The most heinous crimes are punishable with incarceration - removal of liberty - not
    with corporal punishment. Should we not give our children the same basic right?
    Given a convict the choice of serving a long prison term or getting a spanking, or even a Michael Fay style caning.

    Dollars to donuts I know which one most of them are picking.

    Give a kid the choice of a swat or two or a weekend with no friends and doing nothing but homework and reading schoolbooks.

    My point is it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Which one is best in the circumstances can fairly be left to the discretion of a reasonable parent.
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