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Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberlemon lime
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    11 Dec '16 18:25
    I know what voter fraud is, but I'm not entirely clear on what is meant by voter suppression. For example, are French citizens allowed to vote in German elections?
    If not, then can this be called voter 'suppression'? I'm assuming the answer to this is no, so what exactly is voter suppression and why is it wrong? Fraud is illegal as well as being wrong, but what is the legal status (if any) of what is meant by voter suppression?

    Left wingers complain about suppression but seem to have little or nothing to say about fraud. And the converse of this can be said about right wingers.

    Can anyone here enlighten me and explain the difference?
  2. Joined
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    11 Dec '16 18:30
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    I know what voter fraud is, but I'm not entirely clear on what is meant by voter suppression. For example, are French citizens allowed to vote in German elections?
    If not, then can this be called voter 'suppression'? I'm assuming the answer to this is no, so what exactly is voter suppression and why is it wrong? Fraud is illegal as well as being wrong, b ...[text shortened]... his can be said about right wingers.

    Can anyone here enlighten me and explain the difference?
    I believe the libtard point of view is that blacks are too incompetent to get an official ID so that they can vote.

    Since blacks are so stupid and irresponsible requiring an ID prevents them from being able to vote.

    I disagree with this racist point if view.
  3. Germany
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    11 Dec '16 18:41
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    I know what voter fraud is, but I'm not entirely clear on what is meant by voter suppression. For example, are French citizens allowed to vote in German elections?
    If not, then can this be called voter 'suppression'? I'm assuming the answer to this is no, so what exactly is voter suppression and why is it wrong? Fraud is illegal as well as being wrong, b ...[text shortened]... his can be said about right wingers.

    Can anyone here enlighten me and explain the difference?
    Turnout for French presidential election (second round), 2012: 80.35%
    Turnout for U.S. presidential election, 2016: ~55% (still being counted)

    Voter suppression goes a long way in explaining the difference. But of course you knew that already.
  4. Standard memberlemon lime
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    11 Dec '16 18:44
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I believe the libtard point of view is that blacks are too incompetent to get an official ID so that they can vote.

    Since blacks are so stupid and irresponsible requiring an ID prevents them from being able to vote.

    I disagree with this racist point if view.
    Well, yes... but isn't it true liberals own the race issue? They are the only ones qualified to talk about race. And if any black might disagree then he or she is obviously an 'Uncle Tom'... or Aunt Shirley.


    Or Aunt Shirley's monkey (don't ask).
  5. Joined
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    11 Dec '16 18:49
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Turnout for French presidential election (second round), 2012: 80.35%
    Turnout for U.S. presidential election, 2016: ~55% (still being counted)

    Voter suppression goes a long way in explaining the difference. But of course you knew that already.
    I can see reasons people would not vote in the US

    You can vote for tweedle dee or tweedle dum.

    You live in a state where your vote doesn't matter.

    People you voted for in the past lied so why bother?
  6. Standard membervivify
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    11 Dec '16 18:551 edit
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    Left wingers complain about suppression but seem to have little or nothing to say about fraud. And the converse of this can be said about right wingers.

    Can anyone here enlighten me and explain the difference?
    Voter fraud is rare; that is a proven fact. Of the fraud that actually happens, most of it is done through mail-in ballots.

    Since the right is completely uninterested in stopping voter fraud where it most often happens (and is more likely to be committed by whites), creating voter ID laws that ate more likely to affect minoriries (who tend to vote Democratic) is clearly just a shady practice from the right---as well as voter suppression.

    Gerrymandering can also be considered voter suppression. Basically, any act intended to reduce the impact of a specific group of voters (other than through campaigning) is voter suppression.
  7. Germany
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    11 Dec '16 18:55
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I can see reasons people would not vote in the US

    You can vote for tweedle dee or tweedle dum.

    You live in a state where your vote doesn't matter.

    People you voted for in the past lied so why bother?
    Here are some other possible reasons:

    Getting an ID/registering to vote is too expensive/too difficult and I don't want to go through the hassle.

    The voting booth is too far away.

    The voting booth is understaffed and there are hour-long queues. I am busy.
  8. Standard memberlemon lime
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    11 Dec '16 18:57
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Turnout for French presidential election (second round), 2012: 80.35%
    Turnout for U.S. presidential election, 2016: ~55% (still being counted)

    Voter suppression goes a long way in explaining the difference. But of course you knew that already.
    I'm looking for an explanation or definition (or examples) of voter suppression.
    The only thing I know for sure is that it has something to do with proving who you are.
  9. Standard memberlemon lime
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    11 Dec '16 19:02
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Here are some other possible reasons:

    Getting an ID/registering to vote is too expensive/too difficult and I don't want to go through the hassle.

    The voting booth is too far away.

    The voting booth is understaffed and there are hour-long queues. I am busy.
    That could be true for anyone, so why would it be more true for Democrats than Republicans? If liberals are so much smarter than right wingers then shouldn't the reverse of this be true?
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    11 Dec '16 19:08
    Cost? I didn't know that free costs so much

    https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/driver/id/#VoterID
  11. Standard membervivify
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    11 Dec '16 19:131 edit
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    That could be true for anyone, so why would it be more true for Democrats than Republicans? If liberals are so much smarter than right wingers then shouldn't the reverse of this be true?
    It's a matter of finances more than anything else. Minorities are more likely to be poor, and more likely to vote for Democrats. Poor people have a much more difficult time providing the needed documents required for an ID, especially if they're older in age.

    But as I mentioned already, Republicans aren't interested in the integrity of the voting process; if they were, they'd go after the much higher instances of voters fraud (which is already rare) that are committed through mail-in ballots (and more likely to be committed by whites).
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    11 Dec '16 19:21
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    That could be true for anyone, so why would it be more true for Democrats than Republicans? If liberals are so much smarter than right wingers then shouldn't the reverse of this be true?
    It appears that many states require a state id to receive public assistance.

    It seems we are talking about people who have enough money so that they don't qualify for public assistance but too poor to cough up 20 bucks.
  13. Standard memberlemon lime
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    11 Dec '16 19:22
    Originally posted by vivify
    Voter fraud is rare; that is a proven fact. Of the fraud that actually happens, most of it is done through mail-in ballots.

    Since the right is completely uninterested in stopping voter fraud where it most often happens (and is more likely to be committed by whites), creating voter ID laws that ate more likely to affect minoriries (who tend to vote Dem ...[text shortened]... the impact of a specific group of voters (other than through campaigning) is voter suppression.
    Basically, any act intended to reduce the impact of a specific group of voters (other than through campaigning) is voter suppression.

    Does this include fudging polls numbers?
    Poll numbers have an effect, they can encourage voters on one side to show up and vote, and discourage voters on the other side to give up and not vote.
  14. Standard membervivify
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    11 Dec '16 19:251 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Cost? I didn't know that free costs so much

    Wow, free in one whole state?

    And only free if you are both a registered voter, and can make it to the DMV to sign a legal declaration?

    Way to make arguments that aren't utterly intellectually bankrupt.
  15. Standard memberlemon lime
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    11 Dec '16 19:401 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    It's a matter of finances more than anything else. Minorities are more likely to be poor, and more likely to vote for Democrats. Poor people have a much more difficult time providing the needed documents required for an ID, especially if they're older in age.

    But as I mentioned already, Republicans aren't interested in the integrity of the voting process ...[text shortened]... dy rare) that are committed through mail-in ballots (and more likely to be committed by whites).
    Voter fraud in Nevada is not limited to mail in ballots. People were bused in from California to vote, and then brought back to their homes in California.
    A postal worker whistle blower has proof of voter fraud (mail in ballots) and informed the attorney general, who kicked the problem back over to Clark County for officials there to look into it. It's likely nothing will be done about this, and I doubt it's been getting any national attention by the mainstream press.
    Fortunately, for anyone who wants to know there are plenty of other sources for getting information. And for anyone who doesn't want to know these other news sources can be ignored.
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