Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    11 Sep '17 19:15
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/09/teachers-scared-teach-lessons-911-terror-attack/

    Because they don't want to offend their Muslim students and parents.
  2. Standard membervivify
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    11 Sep '17 19:42
    From the link:

    "Kamal Hanif OBE....said that some teachers have a 'misplaced' concern that they will cause offence if they raise 9/11 in the classroom."

    "Mr Hanif, who is executive principal of Waverley Education Foundation.... said that such views are misguided."

    “'There is a fear [among teachers] but it is not really grounded in anything,”'he said."

    “It is based on their stereotypical view of a community as opposed to the reality. It is very misplaced. It is an assumption.”

    So the man who brought this concern to light has also stated that this view isn't a valid one.
  3. Standard membervivify
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    11 Sep '17 19:491 edit
    It should be said that American school systems need to stop being afraid to teach actual history. For too long, U.S. schools leave out important details such as Christopher Columbus being a wretched human being, Washington owning slaves, Lincoln's pro-slave views, the slaughter of mistreatment of Native Americans....and on and on.

    If U.S. schools would stop teaching such a watered-down (and often erroneous) version of U.S. and world history, not only would U.S. citizens be better educated, but we also wouldn't have teachers with nonsensical worries discussed in the OP, since the students would be used to truthful accounts of history, which far more often than not, isn't "nice".
  4. Joined
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    11 Sep '17 20:44
    Originally posted by @vivify
    From the link:

    "Kamal Hanif OBE....said that some teachers have a 'misplaced' concern that they will cause offence if they raise 9/11 in the classroom."

    "Mr Hanif, who is executive principal of Waverley Education Foundation.... said that such views are misguided."

    “'There is a fear [among teachers] but it is not really grounded in anything,”'he said ...[text shortened]...
    So the man who brought this concern to light has also stated that this view isn't a valid one.
    I think you will find that many left winged people have misplaced concerns, like how not to offend people by uttering the words, "Islamic terrorism", just like Barak Obama. 😵
  5. Joined
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    11 Sep '17 20:46
    Originally posted by @vivify
    It should be said that American school systems need to stop being afraid to teach actual history. For too long, U.S. schools leave out important details such as Christopher Columbus being a wretched human being, Washington owning slaves, Lincoln's pro-slave views, the slaughter of mistreatment of Native Americans....and on and on.

    If U.S. schools would ...[text shortened]... ents would be used to truthful accounts of history, which far more often than not, isn't "nice".
    Funny, my state printed text books in school never taught me about such things as SCOTUS declaring the Federal income tax Unconstitutional, before Progs simply added it to the Constitution. Nor did they teach me about the abuse of power FDR exercised such as his court Packing scheme, nor did they teach me that all the Prog Patriarchs were ardent racists.

    Go figure?

    Scared?
  6. Standard membervivify
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    11 Sep '17 21:02
    Originally posted by @whodey
    I think you will find that many left winged people have misplaced concerns, like how not to offend people by uttering the words, "Islamic terrorism", just like Barak Obama. 😵
    Given that the man your party elected refused to offend white supremacists by not naming them (or during the election when he refused to denounce Grand Wizard David Duke), you're not really in a position to talk.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    11 Sep '17 21:22
    Originally posted by @vivify
    It should be said that American school systems need to stop being afraid to teach actual history. For too long, U.S. schools leave out important details such as Christopher Columbus being a wretched human being, Washington owning slaves, Lincoln's pro-slave views, the slaughter of mistreatment of Native Americans....and on and on.

    If U.S. schools would ...[text shortened]... ents would be used to truthful accounts of history, which far more often than not, isn't "nice".
    Also Columbus was a SPANISH SPEAKER with SPANISH CITIZENSHIP
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Sep '17 21:461 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Funny, my state printed text books in school never taught me about such things as SCOTUS declaring the Federal income tax Unconstitutional, before Progs simply added it to the Constitution. Nor did they teach me about the abuse of power FDR exercised such as his court Packing scheme, nor did they teach me that all the Prog Patriarchs were ardent racists.

    Go figure?

    Scared?
    Since the SCOTUS really didn't declare the income tax unconstitutional (just one part applied to certain income), you have no right to complain that they didn't teach you the InfoWars version of history. If by "Progs" you mean the US Congress and 3/4 of the State Legislatures acting using the amendment process specified in the US Constitution, then I guess the second part of your statement would be accurate.

    The next paragraph is more historical inaccuracy; there was no "abuse of power" in FDR's plan; the Constitution makes no provision for a set number of judges on the SCOTUS and any President is free to propose legislation changing the number (which actually happened numerous times in the 1800s). The Congress didn't pass FDR's plan anyway.

    You screaming about "ardent racists" is amusing. I have no idea who in your mind is a "Prog Patriarch" or what constitutes being a "racist" so it is impossible to judge such a matter. Why you think such a distorted version of history claiming such a dubious thing should be taught to schoolchildren isn't hard to figure out; it supports your particular extreme ideology.
  9. Joined
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    12 Sep '17 00:021 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Since the SCOTUS really didn't declare the income tax unconstitutional (just one part applied to certain income), you have no right to complain that they didn't teach you the InfoWars version of history. If by "Progs" you mean the US Congress and 3/4 of the State Legislatures acting using the amendment process specified in the US Constitution, then I gu ...[text shortened]... taught to schoolchildren isn't hard to figure out; it supports your particular extreme ideology.
    I'm just speechless.

    So FDR was not a racist? Really? Have you ever heard of the Japanese interment? What about his racism towards blacks? Do you deny this as well?

    So FDR's power grab to put stooges on SCOTUS because they blocked his New Deal programs was Constitutional? If Congress had complied it would have been, but it put a very bad taste in everyone's mouth and was rightfully rejected.

    It is not surprising that a partisan hack such as yourself is incapable of either realizing such truths or admitting them

    Sad.

    Your ivory tower rendition of Progressivism may be taught in higher education, but is nothing short of a sham.
  10. Standard memberfinnegan
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    12 Sep '17 00:17
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Since the SCOTUS really didn't declare the income tax unconstitutional (just one part applied to certain income), you have no right to complain that they didn't teach you the InfoWars version of history. If by "Progs" you mean the US Congress and 3/4 of the State Legislatures acting using the amendment process specified in the US Constitution, then I gu ...[text shortened]... taught to schoolchildren isn't hard to figure out; it supports your particular extreme ideology.
    You screaming about "ardent racists" is amusing. I have no idea who in your mind is a "Prog Patriarch" or what constitutes being a "racist" so it is impossible to judge such a matter. Why you think such a distorted version of history claiming such a dubious thing should be taught to schoolchildren isn't hard to figure out; it supports your particular extreme ideology.

    Well it is quite right to say whodey is supporting his absurd and extremist ideology with these claims.

    It is sadly also quite right to say that Roosevelt's administration was dependent on the Southern Democrats and that they had free reign to pursue a deeply racist agenda in all aspects of the New Deal. Ira Katznelson should certainly have a place in the curriculum if the USA is to learn anything meaningful about its own history. Failing to educate Americans properly about their own history contributes to the horrible social divisions that are so evident today. One thing I learn from this forum is the impenetrable wall of ignorance preventing Americans from engaging in serious debate about many critical issues.

    Naturally, such an honest education would appal whodey but I fear it would also disturb some of your own smug assumptons.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Sep '17 01:55
    Originally posted by @whodey
    I'm just speechless.

    So FDR was not a racist? Really? Have you ever heard of the Japanese interment? What about his racism towards blacks? Do you deny this as well?

    So FDR's power grab to put stooges on SCOTUS because they blocked his New Deal programs was Constitutional? If Congress had complied it would have been, but it put a very bad taste in ...[text shortened]... er rendition of Progressivism may be taught in higher education, but is nothing short of a sham.
    I find no serious evidence that FDR was a "racist" and you haven't presented any. The Japanese internment was unfortunate hysteria, but it was not "racist" in a technical sense unless you think that people with connections with one nation constitute a "race".

    Your claim was that FDR's plan was "an abuse of power". It wasn't.

    I'm not surprised that the truth makes someone who gets 99% pf their information from right wing sites like Infowars, the Daily Caller and the rest "speechless".
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Sep '17 02:01
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    [i]You screaming about "ardent racists" is amusing. I have no idea who in your mind is a "Prog Patriarch" or what constitutes being a "racist" so it is impossible to judge such a matter. Why you think such a distorted version of history claiming such a dubious thing should be taught to schoolchildren isn't hard to figure out; it supports your particular ex ...[text shortened]... education would appal whodey but I fear it would also disturb some of your own smug assumptons.
    I doubt it. I'm perfectly aware of the compromises FDR had to make to get and then maintain New Deal policies in place. Despite those, the policies greatly benefited blacks and other minorities. To deny this is to deny reality.
  13. Standard membershavixmir
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    12 Sep '17 04:03
    Originally posted by @whodey
    I think you will find that many left winged people have misplaced concerns, like how not to offend people by uttering the words, "Islamic terrorism", just like Barak Obama. 😵
    Oh, I firmly believe very few people think I'm overly concerned about insulting people...

    You should be concerned about your education system not explaining true history or attempting to peddle creationism as science.
  14. Phoenix
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    19 Sep '17 08:19
    Shavixmir, you are absolutely correct about creationists trying to put their beliefs into school text books. Only proven science should be taught at ANY school. Your 2nd statement about true history being ignored is not accurate. It is difficult to find a totally impartial text about any region of land and the events that made 'history' within it's borders. 😀
  15. Behind the scenes
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    19 Sep '17 10:21
    Originally posted by @whodey
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/09/teachers-scared-teach-lessons-911-terror-attack/

    Because they don't want to offend their Muslim students and parents.
    Whodey - You have a unique talent for over simplifying most issues. I don't think teachers are not afraid of offending muslims. The lessons regarding 9/11 in my area are presented in a factual manner, and though they seem to err a bit on the side of political correctness, nothing regarding the 9/11 attacks is left out. Maybe it's different in your area.
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