Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membervivify
    rain
    Joined
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    09 Oct '17 16:41
    https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1CD0SC

    Turkey urged the United States on Monday to review its suspension of visa services after the arrest of a U.S. consulate employee sharply escalated tensions between the two NATO allies and drove Turkey's currency and stocks lower.

    Relations between Ankara and Washington have been plagued by disputes over U.S. support for Kurdish fighters in Syria, Turkey's calls for the extradition of a U.S.-based cleric and the indictment of a Turkish former minister in a U.S. court.

    But last week's arrest of a Turkish employee of the U.S. consulate in Istanbul marked a fresh low. Turkey said the employee had links to U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen, blamed by Ankara for a failed military coup in July 2016.

    The U.S. embassy in Ankara condemned those charges as baseless and announced on Sunday night it was halting all non-immigrant visa services in Turkey while it reassessed Turkey's commitment to the security of its missions and staff.

    Within hours, Ankara announced it was taking the same measures against U.S. citizens seeking visas for Turkey.

    On Monday the Turkish foreign ministry summoned a U.S. diplomat to urge the United States to lift the visa suspension, saying it was causing "unnecessary tensions".
  2. Standard membervivify
    rain
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    09 Oct '17 16:43
    This is really childish behavior from the U.S. It also really reaks of Trump.
  3. SubscriberPonderableonline
    chemist
    Linkenheim
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    10 Oct '17 09:22
    ...and I thought that Turkeys had a hard time in the US around Thanksgiving...
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
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    10 Oct '17 09:36
    I've always had a distrust of the Turkish government, the way they
    treat minorities, their inconsistent response to Islamic fundamentalists
    and their snuggly relationship with US.

    When Turkey invaded Cyprus where was UN or US or Europe? The US
    made little objection because they were jealous of UK bases on Cyprus
    and wanted bases in Turkey.

    Tension? Not sure. But I reckon Trump sees Erdoğan as a hero.
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    10 Oct '17 19:361 edit
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    I've always had a distrust of the Turkish government, the way they
    treat minorities, their inconsistent response to Islamic fundamentalists
    and their snuggly relationship with US.

    When Turkey invaded Cyprus where was UN or US or Europe? The US
    made little objection because they were jealous of UK bases on Cyprus
    and wanted bases in Turkey.

    Tension? Not sure. But I reckon Trump sees Erdoğan as a hero.
    "When Turkey invaded Cyprus where was UN or US or Europe?"
    --Wolfgang59

    Wolfgang59 shows his complete ignorance of the historical context.

    Turkey's 1974 invasion of Cyprus was precipitated by a military coup d'état, which put an
    extreme right-wing Greek nationalist, Nikos Sampson, as dictator, who supported Cyprus's
    annexation (Enosis)--including its Turkish minority--by Greece (then ruled by a right-wing military dictatorship).
    If Cyprus were annexed by Greece, Turkey had reasons to fear the Greek persecution or
    'ethnic cleansing' (to invent a term borrowed later) of Cyprus's substantial Turkish minority.
    Enosis is explicitly banned by the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Cypriot_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

    "The 1974 Cypriot coup d'état was a military coup d'état by the Cypriot National Guard
    and the Greek military junta of 1967–1974. On 15 July 1974 the coup plotters ousted
    President Makarios III and replaced him with pro-Enosis (Greek irridentist) nationalist
    Nikos Sampson as dictator.[1][2][3] The Sampson regime was described as a puppet
    state, whose ultimate aim was the annexation of the island by Greece."

    "In response to the coup, on 20 July 1974 Turkey invaded the island claiming that the
    action was compliant with the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee,[25][26] taking control of the
    north and dividing Cyprus along what became known as the Green Line."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guarantee_(1960)

    "The Treaty of Guarantee is a treaty between the Republic of Cyprus, Greece, Turkey
    and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland promulgated in 1960.
    Article I bans Cyprus from participating in any political union or economic union with any other state [i.e. Greece].

    "The treaty was used as justification for the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, in particular article IV of the treaty.
    This article entitled these three guarantor powers to multilateral action among them or, as a
    last resort if no concerted action seemed possible, each guarantor is entitled to unilateral action."

    "Initially, a bi-communal independent state was at stake due to the July 1974 coup while
    several Turkish Cypriot enclaves were attacked at the onset of the coup. Given these
    circumstances, Turkey claimed the right to unilateral action as provided by this treaty by
    first invading and creating a bridgehead and corridor between Kyrenia and Nicosia enclave.
    In the second invasion campaign, Turkish forces invaded and held on to one third of the island,
    resulting in effective partition of the island and secession of those parts of the island under
    its military control. Hence, the serving invasion is regarded as a violation of this treaty."

    In my view, Turkey's initial military intervention was at least understandable, if not justified
    by the treaty, but many of its subsequent actions cannot be justified by that treaty.
    Nonetheless, it seems wrong to claim that the Greeks were completely innocent in the events of 1974.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
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    11 Oct '17 01:45
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    I've always had a distrust of the Turkish government, the way they
    treat minorities, their inconsistent response to Islamic fundamentalists
    and their snuggly relationship with US.

    When Turkey invaded Cyprus where was UN or US or Europe? The US
    made little objection because they were jealous of UK bases on Cyprus
    and wanted bases in Turkey.

    Tension? Not sure. But I reckon Trump sees Erdoğan as a hero.
    In the UN, the US supported General Assembly Declaration 3212 and its adoption by the Security Council by SC Resolutions 365 and 367, which called for "the speedy withdrawal of all foreign armed forces and foreign military presence from the Republic of Cyprus ........".https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/738/14/IMG/NR073814.pdf?OpenElement

    So that was where the UN, US and Europe were.
  7. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
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    2120
    11 Oct '17 02:221 edit
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/world/europe/alevi-minority-turkey-recep-tayyip-erdogan.html

    "Turkey’s Alevis, a Muslim Minority, Fear a Policy of Denying Their Existence"

    "Incorporating Shiite, Sufi, Sunni and local traditions, Alevism is a strain of Islam that
    emerged in the medieval period. Contrary to common perceptions, Alevism is distinct
    from the Alawite faith followed by Syrians like President Bashar al-Assad."

    "Wary of Sunni dominance of public life, Alevis are key stakeholders in the secular Turkish state,
    and yet have suffered under staunchly secular governments, too. They exemplify the parts
    of Turkey that feel most threatened by Mr. Erdogan — secularists and minorities like the
    Kurds and Alevis — while highlighting both the authoritarianism and religious nationalism
    that predated him, as well as the disparate nature of the coalition that opposes him.

    “Secularists talk about Erdogan as an Islamist, whereas Alevis often look at him as
    explicitly Sunni,” said Howard Eissenstat, a Turkey expert at St. Lawrence University..."
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