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  1. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    08 Jul '11 00:43
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/07/texas.mexican.execution/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    Humberto Leal Garcia Jr., a Mexican national convicted of raping and killing a 16
    year-old girl in 1994, was executed by lethal injection in Texas Thursday evening.

    [...]

    What makes Leal's conviction unusual was that he was not informed about his right
    to contact the Mexican consulate upon his arrest -- a right guaranteed under a
    binding international treaty. Leal's appellate lawyers argued such access could at
    the very least have kept Leal off death row.

    Leal, 38, was convicted of raping Adria Sauceda, a 16-year-old girl in San Antonio,
    and then fatally strangling and bludgeoning her with a 35-pound piece of asphalt.

    _____

    My preconceived opposition to the death penalty aside, I think, warranted or not,
    this can only serve to strain United States-international relations and perpetuate
    claims of United States hypocrisy.
  2. 08 Jul '11 01:23
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/07/texas.mexican.execution/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    Humberto Leal Garcia Jr., a Mexican national convicted of raping and killing a 16
    year-old girl in 1994, was executed by lethal injection in Texas Thursday evening.

    [...]

    What makes Leal's conviction unusual was that he was not informed about his right
    to contact t ...[text shortened]... train United States-international relations and perpetuate
    claims of United States hypocrisy.
    I think that no one should not rape and kill and have absolutely no problem with punishing someone who is convicted.
  3. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    08 Jul '11 01:34
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I think that no one should not rape and kill and have absolutely no problem with punishing someone who is convicted.
    What are you getting at?

    Do you think I have a "problem with punishing someone who is convicted"?

    Do you think this execution had no implications outside of Texas, or outside of the victim's family's desire for "closure"?
  4. 08 Jul '11 01:41
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    What are you getting at?

    Do you think I have a "problem with punishing someone who is convicted"?

    Do you think this execution had no implications outside of Texas, or outside of the victim's family's desire for "closure"?
    It might but I think Texas' primary concern should be punishing those that break its penal code and I like that it did not cave to public external pressure. Certainly if it would execute a citizen of Texas in this situation it should not give more rights to someone just because they are mexican.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Jul '11 01:56
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/07/texas.mexican.execution/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    Humberto Leal Garcia Jr., a Mexican national convicted of raping and killing a 16
    year-old girl in 1994, was executed by lethal injection in Texas Thursday evening.

    [...]

    What makes Leal's conviction unusual was that he was not informed about his right
    to contact t ...[text shortened]... train United States-international relations and perpetuate
    claims of United States hypocrisy.
    Yeah; okay. Those Germans executed in Arizona said the same thing a few years ago. Nothing new here. There's no indication that allowing him to contact the Mexican embassy 16 years ago would have had any impact on the case. In fact, it's pretty clear that it would not have.

    I'm perfectly happy with getting rid of the DP, but this guy confessed to raping and murdering a 16 year old girl. Few are going to shed tears for him.

    I don't see any international problems based on this incident. Europe doesn't like that we have the DP; nothing new there. Whatever. They'll get over it. As for Mexico, there are more important problems with our relationship with Mexico than whether they whine a little about their rapist/murderer getting executed.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Jul '11 01:57
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    What are you getting at?

    Do you think I have a "problem with punishing someone who is convicted"?

    Do you think this execution had no implications outside of Texas, or outside of the victim's family's desire for "closure"?
    Correct; Few or no implications. Other than maybe convincing foreign nationals and residents of other states for that matter, that if you want to go somewhere and murder someone, Texas may not be the smartest destination.
  7. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    08 Jul '11 02:15 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by sh76

    There's no indication that allowing him to contact the Mexican embassy 16 years ago would have had any impact on the case. In fact, it's pretty clear that it would not have.

    Here’s an excerpt from a more in-depth version of the OP article:

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/07/texas.mexican.execution/index.html?hpt=ju_c1

    "Leal's appellate lawyers argued such access could at the very least have kept Leal off death row. [...] Leal's backers say he had learning disabilities and brain damage, and suffered from sexual abuse at the hands of his parish priest, and that consul officials would have assisted in such a defense. They say those factors should have been considered at the sentencing phase of the trial. Leal claimed he did not learn of his consular access right until two years after his capital conviction. He said he learned of the right not from any official, but from a fellow prisoner."

    Few or no implications.

    I agree that there are probably no immediate, direct implications for United States foreign policy, but I also think that continuing a pattern of disregarding international treaties (among other agreements) certainly can’t help the United States’ global reputation.
  8. 08 Jul '11 02:37
    Two words for that blob of pond scum:

    Viva Texas!
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Jul '11 12:45 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Originally posted by sh76

    [b] There's no indication that allowing him to contact the Mexican embassy 16 years ago would have had any impact on the case. In fact, it's pretty clear that it would not have.


    Here’s an excerpt from a more in-depth version of the OP article:

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/07/texas.mexican.execution/index.h eaties (among other agreements) certainly can’t help the United States’ global reputation.[/b]
    I don't understand. He went through a whole trial and sentencing phase that took months or years and in all that time his lawyer never told him he could call the consulate??

    Oh, and the officials at the consulate never once read the newspapers and learned of the trial before sentencing years after the incident?

    Sorry, but that's weak.
  10. 08 Jul '11 13:36
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    [What makes Leal's conviction unusual was that he was not informed about his right
    to contact the Mexican consulate upon his arrest
    Its like the President violating the War Powers Act or ignoring federal laws rergarding illegal immigration. Laws are just living breathing documents that sometimes outlive their usefulness in any one given society that need 24/7 reassessment based upon the political whims of those in power.
  11. 08 Jul '11 15:53
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/07/texas.mexican.execution/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    Humberto Leal Garcia Jr., a Mexican national convicted of raping and killing a 16
    year-old girl in 1994, was executed by lethal injection in Texas Thursday evening.

    [...]

    What makes Leal's conviction unusual was that he was not informed about his right
    to contact t ...[text shortened]... train United States-international relations and perpetuate
    claims of United States hypocrisy.
    Does he have the right to contact a Mexican consulate, or does he have the right to be informed that he has a right to contact a Mexican consulate?
  12. 08 Jul '11 16:54
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/07/texas.mexican.execution/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    Humberto Leal Garcia Jr., a Mexican national convicted of raping and killing a 16
    year-old girl in 1994, was executed by lethal injection in Texas Thursday evening.

    [...]

    What makes Leal's conviction unusual was that he was not informed about his right
    to contact t ...[text shortened]... train United States-international relations and perpetuate
    claims of United States hypocrisy.
    I heard that President Obama weighed in to protest the execution. If so, the only explanation is that it is because he was a Mexican. If he had been say from Germany, he would not have said anythihg about the case.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    08 Jul '11 16:58 / 2 edits
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/290267.stm

    A German national has been executed in Arizona's gas chamber - despite an appeal court ruling that the use of gas is cruel.

    Walter LaGrand, 37, was executed for his role in the 1982 murder of a bank manager...

    Walter LaGrand refused offers of lethal injection twice, saying he would prefer a more painful execution in the gas chamber to protest the death penalty.


    The article goes on to describe the exact procedure for killing somebody by gas chamber. It's apparently not that hard. Cyanide pellets, sulfuric acid (you can get this in any community college chem lab) and distilled water.

    A murderer protesting the death penalty. LOL
  14. 09 Jul '11 00:04
    The only bad thing about this whole situation is the fact that we can only kill the guy one time.

    Oh well... Eff you, Mexico.
  15. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    09 Jul '11 00:42
    Originally posted by whodey
    Its like the President violating the War Powers Act or ignoring federal laws rergarding illegal immigration. Laws are just living breathing documents that sometimes outlive their usefulness in any one given society that need 24/7 reassessment based upon the political whims of those in power.
    By all means, please change the subject.