Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    20 Jul '18 02:351 edit
    Hanan Ashrawi is a Palestinian Christian woman (with a PhD from the University of Virginia).

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/19/ultimate-deal-israel-palestine-peace-middle-east

    "The ‘ultimate deal’? For Israel, maybe. We Palestinians will never accept it.
    A US-backed deal to bring ‘peace’ to the Middle East would just legitimise
    Israeli aggression – and oppress my people further."

    "President Donald Trump and his administration have been promising to
    announce what has been called, ironically, the “ultimate deal” for Israel
    and Palestine. It is a proposition for “peace” that violates the most basic
    requirements for a just and sustainable solution, flouts international law,
    contradicts the global consensus on peace (which in itself constitutes a
    major compromise by the Palestinians), and even departs from the
    declared policies of several previous US administrations.

    The “ultimate deal” suffers from multiple fatal flaws and misconceptions
    that several successive US administrations have repeatedly failed to recognise.
    The spirit of the Palestinian people cannot be broken or brought into
    submission; nor will we ever succumb to external pressure and blackmail.
    To expect us to surrender our rights and freedom in exchange for a mythical “economic
    peace” is nothing short of a flight of fancy."

    Traditional American diplomacy is based upon the racist premise that the
    natives can be easily kept happy and servile when handed a few trinkets.

    "The [US] decision emboldened the rightwing, racist, ethno-sectarian
    and hyper-nationalist forces in Israel – and gave the Israeli government
    the green light to colonise more Palestinian land and effectively deal the
    final blow to an already ailing two-state solution."

    Willfully blind Americans cling to the illusion of the moribund 'two-state solution'.

    "The same ideology that violated Jerusalem is also behind the US
    administration’s assault on Palestinian refugees and their right of return
    – a universally recognised right that cannot be denied just to
    accommodate Israel’s exclusivity and exclusionary policies."

    Almost no US politician (however 'progressive' ) endorses the right of return
    for Palestinian refugees.

    "The “ultimate deal” does not intend to offer a solution but rather to reinvent
    the occupation as a system of military and unaccountable control, and
    accommodate the continuing theft and fragmentation of our land, thereby
    relegating us to imprisonment in isolated territories at the mercy of
    Israeli security control."

    Many 'liberal' Americans would celebrate Israel's creation of a helpless Palestinian Bantustan.

    "The US should abandon its misguided assumption that anyone, whether
    in the region or beyond, can “deliver” the Palestinian people or sign up
    on our behalf. This approach, concocted by a team of US “peacemakers”, is
    one-sided, misplaced and totally divorced from genuine peacemaking."

    The USA has long sought non-Palestinians (such as Egypt's Sadat) to
    'represent' the Palestinians and sell them out.

    "We have already made a painful concession in 1988 by accepting 22%
    of historical Palestine. Any attempt at further shrinkage with illegal Israeli
    expansionism, or any other acts of deception in the form of a statelet in Gaza or a
    fragmented entity in parts of the West Bank will be another recipe for disaster."

    Regardless of her private thoughts, Hanan Ashrawi (a politician) still professes here to
    believe that the 'ailing' (her term) 'two-state solution' is not quite beyond hope of salvage.
    But the clock's running out very fast.
  2. Joined
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    20 Jul '18 02:55
    If only international attention were focused as much on hell holes like Iran and Venezuela.

    But then, those are places Leftists want the rest of the world to emulate.
  3. Seongnam, S. Korea
    Joined
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    20 Jul '18 03:49
    The plan, as far as I can see, is all of the Gaza strip plus 50% of the West Bank.

    This article has some interesting additional information:



    Faraj was received in the Saudi capital by Riyadh’s intelligence chief, who handed him the US proposal.

    Sources said Faraj came up with a counter proposal, after consulting with Abbas by phone. The Saudis then passed it to the American team who refused to discuss it and warned that “the plan is not for negotiation, it’s for implementation”.

    Saudi Arabia raised the financial aid the kingdom gives to the Palestinian Authority in the past couple of months from $7.5m to $20m per month, seen by some as a bribe to accept the deal.


    This is a very interesting and smart move, all things considered; the Saudis are ultimately needed to negotiate this.

    And a nice little cherry:

    The plan also calls for having a route from the new state of Palestine to the Old City of Jerusalem, where the Palestinians can pray at the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Church of Holy Sepulchre.


    A nice cherry on top.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/trumps-deal-century-leaves-palestinians-feeling-angry-and-abandoned-824850253

    IDK. The deal is between the Palestinians & Israelis.

    I figure, they should consider taking it because, otherwise, war will just continue indefinitely.

    Is there any realistic scenario that involves both parties getting everything that they want?
  4. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    20 Jul '18 04:011 edit
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    The plan, as far as I can see, is all of the Gaza strip plus 50% of the West Bank.

    This article has some interesting additional information:

    [quote]Faraj was received in the Saudi capital by Riyadh’s intelligence chief, who handed him the US proposal.

    Sources said Faraj came up with a counter proposal, after consulting with Abbas by phone. here any realistic scenario that involves both parties getting everything that they want?
    Phil completely ignores the original poet's article.

    The USA would love to find a corrupt Arab puppet to "represent' the Palestinians.

    At least we know now (as I suspected) that Philokalia is more racist
    against the Palestinians than against Israeli Jews
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    20 Jul '18 06:01
    Oh, OK, so who should represent the Palestinians?

    Fatah? Are they the legitimate voice?

    Or how about Hamas?

    Or is there some mythical, wonderful leadership that is yet to emerge?

    Do you have some content for us?
  6. Standard memberLundos
    Back to basics
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    20 Jul '18 06:29
    Originally posted by @whodey
    If only international attention were focused as much on hell holes like Iran and Venezuela.

    But then, those are places Leftists want the rest of the world to emulate.
    Why do you always feel the need to lie?
  7. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    20 Jul '18 20:28
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    The plan, as far as I can see, is all of the Gaza strip plus 50% of the West Bank.

    This article has some interesting additional information:

    [quote]Faraj was received in the Saudi capital by Riyadh’s intelligence chief, who handed him the US proposal.

    Sources said Faraj came up with a counter proposal, after consulting with Abbas by phone. The ...[text shortened]... here any realistic scenario that involves both parties getting everything that they want?
    White man always acts like he knows what's best for the natives.

    A few decades ago, Philokalia presumably would have argued that it's *unrealistic* to end apartheid.
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    20 Jul '18 20:311 edit
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    Oh, OK, so who should represent the Palestinians?

    Fatah? Are they the legitimate voice?
    Or how about Hamas?

    Or is there some mythical, wonderful leadership that is yet to emerge?
    Do you have some content for us?
    Supporters of Israel (which has elected an extreme right-wing racist government) love to
    put down the Palestinians for not electing (under practically wartime conditions) a government
    of pacifist saints (though Israel may prefer corrupt weaklings, who would easier to manipulate).
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