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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    29 Oct '13 13:20 / 2 edits
    This is NBC News, folks. Not Fox. Not Druge. Not Hannity. Not Ann Coulter. This is brought to you by the same folks who bring you a prime time consisting of Al Sharpton, Lawrence O'Donnell, Rachel Maddow and that high school kid with the glasses whose name escapes me.

    On June 15, 2009, Obama said this: "We will keep this promise to the American people. If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period.”

    In 2012, he echoed that sentiment, saying, "“If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

    However, many are finding that not to be the case. More than 300,000 cancellation notices have been sent out in Florida, according to Kaiser Health News, and another 180,000 in California. In New Jersey, the number of cancellations tops 800,000, the Star-Ledger reports.

    According to NBC News, approximately 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million Americans who buy their health insurance individually should expect to receive a cancellation letter over the next year "because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law."

    This could result in millions of Americans being forced to purchase different policies, potentially at higher premiums.

    So how did the Obama administration know the cancellations would be coming?

    The Affordable Care Act states that people who had health insurance prior to March 23, 2010 – the day President Obama signed the bill into law – will be able to keep those policies even if they don't meet the requirements of the new law. However, the Department of Health and Human Services tightened that provision, so that "if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered," NBC News reports.

    Because the market for individual insurance experiences significant turnover, the insinuation is the Obama administration had to have known many policies "grandfathered" in would not qualify for the ACA. NBC News claims that the administration knew in 2010 that "more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them."

    “This says that when they made the promise [that individuals could keep their plans], they knew half the people in this market outright couldn’t keep what they had and then they wrote the rules so that others couldn’t make it either,” Robert Laszewski of Health Policy and Strategy Associates told NBC News.

    etc.


    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-knew-millions-wouldn-t-be-able-to-keep-insurance--report-222249311.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

    We all remember the speeches. Even you, Moon. For years, we've heard over and over and over again that we'll be able to keep out existing health insurance under the ACA if we want to. My insurance broker told me back in 2010 that under the ACA my policy would probably no longer be offered. Like a sucker, I believed the soothing lies of the administration. Now, thankfully, since then I've gotten new insurance which, I hope, will not be cancelled under the ACA. However, now we learn that "NBC News claims that the administration knew in 2010 that "more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them."

    That's right, folks. When they soothed us all, over and over and over again, that our plans will not be affected, they knew that half the plans would be unsustainable.

    Half.

    Chew on that for a moment.
  2. 29 Oct '13 13:35
    The president simply lied to get a massive redistribution policy passed. The Democrats will however continue to win elections because they have found a scape goat (the wealthy) and as long as the tell people that this evil group is stealing from them and not paying their fair share they will be very popular.
  3. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    29 Oct '13 13:58
    Originally posted by sh76
    Like a sucker, I believed the soothing lies of the administration.
    You really did?!

    Well, that explains a lot.

    Breathe the free air again my friend.
  4. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    29 Oct '13 14:06
    Originally posted by quackquack
    The president simply lied to get a massive redistribution policy passed. The Democrats will however continue to win elections because they have found a scape goat (the wealthy) and as long as the tell people that this evil group is stealing from them and not paying their fair share they will be very popular.
    Oh I kinda doubt they can pull that off. True believers like Moon will suck and swallow that gladly, but it's going to be pretty hard for the Dems not to own Obamacare. They rammed it through, the public has recently been reminded by Cruz and Lee that the GOP is the party that fought against it, and now the roll out has failed in such a way that it can only be blamed on the Administration. This thing is around their necks.
  5. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    29 Oct '13 14:14
    Originally posted by sh76
    This is NBC News, folks. Not Fox. Not Druge. Not Hannity. Not Ann Coulter. This is brought to you by the same folks who bring you a prime time consisting of Al Sharpton, Lawrence O'Donnell, Rachel Maddow and that high school kid with the glasses whose name escapes me.

    [quote]On June 15, 2009, Obama said this: "We will keep this promise to the American people ...[text shortened]... ed, they knew that half the plans would be unsustainable.

    Half.

    Chew on that for a moment.
    I have healthcare through my job, and lost it, we got rolled into another
    plan, but labs now cost us while before they were paid for, and the cost
    of everything has gone up, but what it pays for has lessened. Obama
    lied to everyone.
    Kelly
  6. 29 Oct '13 14:26
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Oh I kinda doubt they can pull that off. True believers like Moon will suck and swallow that gladly, but it's going to be pretty hard for the Dems not to own Obamacare. They rammed it through, the public has recently been reminded by Cruz and Lee that the GOP is the party that fought against it, and now the roll out has failed in such a way that it can only be blamed on the Administration. This thing is around their necks.
    In NYC, the Democratic mayor candidate has like a 40% lead.

    People like the party that gave them free health care -- they like them so much that they don't care if the have to pay extra for it.
  7. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    29 Oct '13 14:35
    Originally posted by quackquack
    In NYC, the Democratic mayor candidate has like a 40% lead.

    People like the party that gave them free health care -- they like them so much that they don't care if the have to pay extra for it.
    No one is being given free health care someone is paying for it.
    The great change is now you can be fined if you don't have insurance.
    Kelly
  8. 29 Oct '13 14:38
    Yeah, that was a rather obvious lie.
  9. 29 Oct '13 14:39
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    No one is being given free health care someone is paying for it.
    The great change is now you can be fined if you don't have insurance.
    Kelly
    I agree with your description; however, I am simply saying that I do not see the Democrats suffering as a result of the ACA.
  10. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    29 Oct '13 14:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by quackquack
    In NYC, the Democratic mayor candidate has like a 40% lead.

    People like the party that gave them free health care -- they like them so much that they don't care if the have to pay extra for it.
    Well, that's New York, and you can't fix stupid. But at least CBS isn't covering for the Dems anymore, and soon everyone will know someone who is getting hosed by Obamacare. Maybe more middle-of-the-roaders like sh76 will finally wake up and smell the mendacity.
  11. 29 Oct '13 15:15 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    This is NBC News, folks. Not Fox. Not Druge. Not Hannity. Not Ann Coulter. This is brought to you by the same folks who bring you a prime time consisting of Al Sharpton, Lawrence O'Donnell, Rachel Maddow and that high school kid with the glasses whose name escapes me.

    [quote]On June 15, 2009, Obama said this: "We will keep this promise to the American people ...[text shortened]... ed, they knew that half the plans would be unsustainable.

    Half.

    Chew on that for a moment.
    I never took that to mean that my insurance carrier would be prohibited from ever cancelling (or deciding not to renew) coverage for a whole pool—or that my employer would somehow be required not to change carriers, say, with somewhat different coverage. I only took it to mean that I would not be required to leave that existing plan, as long as it’s there (and I haven’t, say, moved from the coverage area, or changed employment ).

    It would seem a bit silly to think that the law required an insurance company to maintain the "ABC plan" just as it is forever for the current pool—and that somehow the insurance industry missed that until now, or decided not to make a huge public issue of it. Is that seriously what you thought until now?
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    29 Oct '13 15:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vistesd
    I never took that to mean that my insurance carrier would be prohibited from ever cancelling (or deciding not to renew) coverage for a whole pool—or that my employer would somehow be required not to change carriers, say, with somewhat different coverage. I only took it to mean that I would not be required to leave that existing plan, as long as it’s there ( ...[text shortened]... or decided not to make a huge public issue of it. Is that seriously what you thought until now?
    Oh, please. That's not the point and you know it. These plans aren't being cancelled out of attrition or unilateral decision of the company or consumer. They are being cancelled specifically because they do not comply with the ACA. If a plan is cancelled because it is not in compliance with the ACA, then the ACA is forcing you to leave it.

    You're being ridiculous.
  13. 29 Oct '13 15:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Oh, please. That's not the point and you know it. These plans aren't being cancelled out of attrition or unilateral decision of the company or consumer. They are being cancelled specifically because they do not comply with the ACA. If a plan is cancelled because it is not in compliance with the ACA, then the ACA is forcing you to leave it.

    You're being ridiculous.
    Maybe I’m missing something, but what prevents the carrier from modifying the coverage to make it ACA-compliant—or, at minimum, to offer ACA-compliant replacement coverage—other than a business decision not to?

    NOTE: my carrier has opted out of participation in the exchanges. They have given public assurances that (a) coverage will not change and (b) premium increases will be modest (it looks to be about $8-10 per month) through 2014. How much weight do I give such assurances? Very little(nor would I ever have, having had a lot of different coverages over my lifetime). The point is, I am one of the people who may have to change, and I am not surprised.

    My broker’s opinion is that my carrier may have to drop coverage precisely because they opted out of participation, and hence their insurance pool will shrink, as those carriers who are participating will end up having a competitive advantage. In my case, the coverages and the premium rates are pretty comparable, so the switch will not significantly affect me. Whether or not premium rates will, in the long run, increase more or less under the ACA is an open question—I don’t see a lot of cost-containment compared with the pre-ACA system.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    29 Oct '13 15:57 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vistesd
    Maybe I’m missing something, but what prevents the carrier from modifying the coverage to make it ACA-compliant—or, at minimum, to offer ACA-compliant replacement coverage—other than a business decision not to?

    NOTE: my carrier has opted out of participation in the exchanges. They have given public assurances that (a) coverage will not change and (b) ...[text shortened]... ACA is an open question—I don’t see a lot of cost-containment compared with the pre-ACA system.
    The fundamental nature of the plan may not have been ACA compliant so that the plan cannot be amended to be ACA compliant. Per the article, there was supposed to be a grandfather clause that would have made the President's declaration partially true, but it's so limited as to be useless.

    They could have grandfathered all existing plans as of implementation date and made keeping the grandfathered status easier. Instead they chose not to. Hence, the effect of the ACA in cancelling plans was pre-meditated and intentional.
  15. 29 Oct '13 16:16 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    The fundamental nature of the plan may not have been ACA compliant so that the plan cannot be amended to be ACA compliant. Per the article, there was supposed to be a grandfather clause that would have made the President's declaration partially true, but it's so limited as to be useless.

    They could have grandfathered all existing plans as of implementation ...[text shortened]... hose not to. Hence, the effect of the ACA in cancelling plans was pre-meditated and intentional.
    I moved from one state to the next this year, and had to change carriers, hence am not grandfathered. So I confess that I did not pay a lot of attention to what is and is not grandfathered.

    In any event, perhaps I'm more skeptical, because I have over the years lost coverage before through plan cancellation, and so would never have thought that the ACA provided that kind of enforced guarantee for grandfathered plans--i.e., that they could never be cancelled. I'm serious when I say that I never heard the promise to require any carrier to continue particular coverages. Apparently others did.

    EDIT: However, I concede your point that the ACA is the cancellation-trigger in at least a lot of these cases.