Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper Before I even address your list of "failed" government programs, let's get down to your question.
"AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM?? "
The bill does NOT have a government run health care system anywhere in it. That is not an opinion. It is a fact.
True. What it does do, however, is mandate millions more into an unsustainable system. The thinking is that as long as they are included they can never be taken out just like those currently covered by Medicare. No politician in their right mind would dare take away our "free" goodies. Then when it goes belly up they will seek to nationalize the whole thing.
What bothers me is their willingness to drown the country in debt to achieve their goals. I would respect them if they just came out and argued for socialism than this whole cloak and dagger routine taking baby steps to get there. Its almost as if they are ashamed of socialism even though they think it is "good".
They really could care less how far in debt we go. After all, if health care is a "right" then the government should see to it that you have access to it no matter how unsustainable it becomes. This is best illustrated by Congressman Kucinichs change of heart toward Obamacare. At first he stated that premiums would continue to skyrocket and that the first order of business should be jobs, but then boards Air Force One and has a change of heart. Go figure.
Originally posted by whodey True. What it does do, however, is mandate millions more into an unsustainable system. The thinking is that as long as they are included they can never be taken out just like those currently covered by Medicare. No politician in their right mind would dare take away our "free" goodies. Then when it goes belly up they will seek to nationalize the whole thin iness should be jobs, but then boards Air Force One and has a change of heart. Go figure.
I wish you right wing nuts would make up your minds; is health care reform going to raise taxes so high it kills the economy OR raise the deficit so much we're drowning forever in red ink? It can't do both like you claim it will (often in the same post).
How come universal health care has been sustainable for more than 50 years in virtually every other advanced country, but is unsustainable in ours?
Originally posted by no1marauder I wish you right wing nuts would make up your minds; is health care reform going to raise taxes so high it kills the economy OR raise the deficit so much we're drowning forever in red ink? It can't do both like you claim it will (often in the same post).
How come universal health care has been sustainable for more than 50 years in virtually every other advanced country, but is unsustainable in ours?
Originally posted by no1marauder [b]I wish you right wing nuts would make up your minds; is health care reform going to raise taxes so high it kills the economy OR raise the deficit so much we're drowning forever in red ink?
Originally posted by no1marauder [
How come universal health care has been sustainable for more than 50 years in virtually every other advanced country, but is unsustainable in ours?[/b]
Look around man, the entire world economy is built like a house of cards. Who will go under first I wonder? Dubai, Greece, the good old US of A? Meanwhile, lets just spend, spend, spend!!
Originally posted by badmoon It will pass. Hope that it works. If you hope that it fails you are not a patriot or one that I would be proud to shoulder with.
People view my opposition to the bill as a lack of compassion for those without medical insurance. I think those on the left view it soley as favoring dollars over lives. However, that is not the whole picture. I honestly think quality of care will deminish the more socialized the system becomes. So in the end, you may have some helped by Obamacare, but there will be those who are harmed by it as well. Case in point are the high mortality rates for caner related illnesses in countries with socialize medicine. They simply take longer to be seen and are not as aggressive with treating it. In fact, in the UK you have around a 74% chance of surviving with prostate cancer for a 5 year period as where in the US it is much higher. If you ask me, it is a bit like juggling oranges as to who is helped and who is harmed. However, the dagger in the heart is the massive cost and mortgaging of our future as well as the loss of our freedoms are the government takes it over.
As for patriots go, what happened to the notion of a limited government that patriots like Jefferson was in favor of? When did it die?
Originally posted by badmoon I understand now your point of view. I do believe that the risk of this bill is not nearly as catastrophic as you might believe.
lets address this too while you're still in a thinking mood....... how, when will this be cleared up....
Then we can start to worry about medicare, medicaid
this whole mess is mind boggling
The Democrats have spent the year wasting time on a bad bill that the American people recognize as a bad bill and don’t want to see passed.
By Doug Schoen
Washington is preparing for a House “vote” on the current health care plan, but unfortunately Congress isn't listening to the rest of America. Aside from the fact that hardworking citizens won’t appreciate the use of parliamentary gimmicks in the forms of the “Slaughter Rule” and reconciliation, Americans simply don’t like the plan.
Earlier this week the Independent Women’s Voice released a poll that showed in 35 of the most marginal districts, 69% opposed the plan and 29% supported it. The following day, another poll was released by the Anzalone-Liszt Research which was conducted across 92 blue dog districts with the end result still showing that the current plan is not favored with 42% in favor and 52% opposed.
As Thursday rolled around, many Democrats began to say that the momentum was swinging in their favor, but the reality continued to be that the American people are saying the exact opposite. Later that afternoon, a national Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll showed that 55% of respondents were against the current plan. It may well be that the Democrats ram the bill through Congress, but the polling consistently shows they will pay for it in the mid-term elections and beyond.
Furthermore, the Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll shows that the number of people opposed to the plan has grown steadily while support has remained at the same low numbers. Thirty-five percent of those polled support the plan now, compared to 36% last July. The number of opposed has jumped from 47% all the way to 55%. The numbers just don’t support any claim that the American people are in favor of the proposed health care plan.
Worse for the Democrats, the American people recognize trickery when they see it. The dangerous combination of the “Slaughter Rule” and reconciliation to pass the bill is ruffling a lot of feathers in the world of public opinion. Fifty-three percent of those polled in the same Fox News/Opinion Dynamic research poll believe that the Democrats are “changing the rules” to get the bill passed.
All of the numbers add up to a terrible outcome for the incumbent party as election season heats up. The Democrats have spent the year wasting time on a bad bill that the American people recognize as a bad bill and don’t want.
The American Mess
21 Mar '10 20:121 edit
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