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  1. 13 Nov '15 11:04
    This is the phrase coined by Mark Levin in his new book "Plunder and Deceit". The term "Degrowth Movement" describes what the environmentalist movement has become, or perhaps always was about.

    For example,, in a recent interview fanatical anticapitalist and climate activist Naomi Klein proclaimed that "Capitalism increasingly is a discredited system because it is seen as a system that venerates greed above all else. There is a benefit to climate discussion to name a system that lots of people already have problems with for other reasons. I don't know why it is important to save capitalism. It is a pretty battered brand. Just focusing on climate is getting us nowhere. Many, many more people recognize the need to change our economy. If climate can be our lens to catalyze this economic transformation that so many people need for other even more pressing reasons then that may be a winning combination. This economic system is failing the vast majority of people. Capitalism is also waging war on the planet's life support system."

    Even though these "Progressives" are really "Regressive" in their pursuit to send society back to the days of horse and buggy, they are still referred to as Progressives. In fact, they define their agenda as follows: "Sustainable degrowth is a downscaling of production and consumption that increases human well being and enhances ecological conditions and equity on the planet. It calls for a future where societies live within their ecological means, with open localized economies and resources more equally distributed through new forms of democratic institutions. It is an essential economic strategy to pursue in overdeveloped country like the US, for well being of the planet, of underdeveloped pupulations, and yes, even of the sick, stressed, and overweight consumer populations of overdeveloped countries."

    French economist and leading degrowther Serge Latouche asserts that, "We are currently witnessing the steady commercialization of everything in the world. Applied to every domain in this way, capitalism cannot help but destroy the planet much as it destroys society, since the very idea of the market depends on unlimited excess and domination." Serge also abhors economic growth and wealth creation, the very attributes necessary to improve the human condition and societies: "A society based on economic contraction cannot exist under capitalism."

    Indeed, on July 18, 2014, scores of extreme groups throughout the world endorsed a proclamation titled "Margarita Declaration on Climate Change" (which means "changing the system not the climate".


    So there you have it. Climate change activists are not so much concerned about the environment as they are embracing Marxism.
  2. 13 Nov '15 11:49
    Give the source from where you copy/paste:

    http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads/44390-Degrowth-movement
  3. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    13 Nov '15 16:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    This is the phrase coined by Mark Levin in his new book "Plunder and Deceit". The term "Degrowth Movement" describes what the environmentalist movement has become, or perhaps always was about.

    For example,, in a recent interview fanatical anticapitalist and climate activist Naomi Klein proclaimed that "Capitalism increasingly is a discredited system becau ...[text shortened]... change activists are not so much concerned about the environment as they are embracing Marxism.
    Yes, we know Whodey, the world is going to the dogs. Karl Marx has been reborn in the image of Hillary Clinton, our farms and factories are now forced Soviet style collectives, and those dirty old environmentalists want us to support our local farmers by purchasing from them instead of Wal Mart. Those dirty old environmentalists are destroying the American way of life. It's the end of everything!!! Aaaaaaggghhhhhh
  4. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    14 Nov '15 15:12 / 1 edit
    Taking money from the poor and giving it to corporations is NOT growth, and neither is the opposite "degrowth".

    This story is the same old chicken little story that providing for the poor is "raping America", only substitute the newest "badguy", the environment, for the poor.
  5. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    15 Nov '15 02:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    This is the phrase coined by Mark Levin in his new book "Plunder and Deceit". The term "Degrowth Movement" describes what the environmentalist movement has become, or perhaps always was about.

    For example,, in a recent interview fanatical anticapitalist and climate activist Naomi Klein proclaimed that "Capitalism increasingly is a discredited system becau ...[text shortened]... change activists are not so much concerned about the environment as they are embracing Marxism.
    Infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible. One would think the point would be obvious. We will have to learn to live within our ecological means or we will soon destroy ourselves. And since capitalism requires permanent growth to keep itself going, we will have to either do away with it or change it beyond recognition to accomplish that goal.

    Contrary to your assertion, though, it does not necessarily mean going "back to the days of horse and buggy", although that is certainly an option. Nor does anti-capitalism necessarily equate to Marxism.
  6. 15 Nov '15 02:23
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Taking money from the poor and giving it to corporations is NOT growth, and neither is the opposite "degrowth".

    This story is the same old chicken little story that providing for the poor is "raping America", only substitute the newest "badguy", the environment, for the poor.
    Where did I say taking money from the poor and giving it to corporations?
  7. 15 Nov '15 02:24
    Originally posted by bill718
    Yes, we know Whodey, the world is going to the dogs. Karl Marx has been reborn in the image of Hillary Clinton, our farms and factories are now forced Soviet style collectives, and those dirty old environmentalists want us to support our local farmers by purchasing from them instead of Wal Mart. Those dirty old environmentalists are destroying the American way of life. It's the end of everything!!! Aaaaaaggghhhhhh
    These people admit that their efforts are now for economic transformation, not environmental.
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    15 Nov '15 02:26
    Originally posted by whodey
    This is the phrase coined by Mark Levin in his new book "Plunder and Deceit". The term "Degrowth Movement" describes what the environmentalist movement has become, or perhaps always was about.

    For example,, in a recent interview fanatical anticapitalist and climate activist Naomi Klein proclaimed that "Capitalism increasingly is a discredited system becau ...[text shortened]... change activists are not so much concerned about the environment as they are embracing Marxism.
    An interview with Naomi Klein is here: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/global-warming-interview-with-naomi-klein-a-1020007.html

    It's a good one stressing the seemingly obvious point that laissez faire capitalism with its fetish on markets cannot adequately deal with a negative externality like increased carbon emissions.
  9. 15 Nov '15 02:26
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible. One would think the point would be obvious. We will have to learn to live within our ecological means or we will soon destroy ourselves. And since capitalism requires permanent growth to keep itself going, we will have to either do away with it or change it beyond recognition to accomplish that goal.

    Con ...[text shortened]... ", although that is certainly an option. Nor does anti-capitalism necessarily equate to Marxism.
    Free trade is not constant growth. It is about ups and downs, it is about Recessions, Depressions, and good economic times. It is just as much about bear markets as it is bull markets.

    I suppose the issue for them is, if the economy is booming, carbon emissions will also be booming. Therefore, they will just see to it that the economy never flourishes again.

    Looking at those in leadership in the federal government, they have who they want in place for that.
  10. 15 Nov '15 02:29
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Give the source from where you copy/paste:

    http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads/44390-Degrowth-movement
    I gave the source. It was from Mark Levin's book. It was not a copy and paste.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    15 Nov '15 02:30
    Originally posted by whodey
    These people admit that their efforts are now for economic transformation, not environmental.
    What Naomi Klein is saying is that transforming the economy is necessary to stop massive damage to the environment which will eventually create massive damage to the economy. The concept isn't that hard to grasp.
  12. 15 Nov '15 02:30
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    An interview with Naomi Klein is here: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/global-warming-interview-with-naomi-klein-a-1020007.html

    It's a good one stressing the seemingly obvious point that laissez faire capitalism with its fetish on markets cannot adequately deal with a negative externality like increased carbon emissions.
    And neither can all of the world's governments no matter how much power they grab to "fix" global warming it seems.
  13. 15 Nov '15 02:32
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    What Naomi Klein is saying is that transforming the economy is necessary to stop massive damage to the environment which will eventually create massive damage to the economy. The concept isn't that hard to grasp.
    These assumptions are speculative and the government solutions are a joke.

    Even scientists admit that if all the world governments adopt cap and trade it will not stop global warming.
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    15 Nov '15 02:33
    Originally posted by whodey
    And neither can all of the world's governments no matter how much power they grab to "fix" global warming it seems.
    What world do you live in?

    For at least 25 years, the trend has been to reduce government power vis-a-vis Big Business.
  15. 15 Nov '15 02:36
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    What world do you live in?

    For at least 25 years, the trend has been to reduce government power vis-a-vis Big Business.
    The world I live in is a world where governments around the world are forcing taxes on carbon emissions.

    Granted, Big Business does not flip the bill because these costs are passed down to us.