Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    25 Oct '17 18:591 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/24/michael-bloomberg-brexit-is-stupidest-thing-any-country-has-done-besides-trump

    "Michael Bloomberg: Brexit is stupidest thing any country has done besides Trump."

    "Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire media mogul and former mayor of
    New York, has said Brexit is the “single stupidest thing any country has
    ever done” apart from the election of Donald Trump as US president.
    Bloomberg argued that “it is really hard to understand why a country that was
    doing so well wanted to ruin it” with the Brexit vote, in a series of outspoken
    remarks made at a technology conference in Boston a fortnight ago."

    "His criticism of Brexit included hitting out at the leave campaign and its
    claims that Britain had problems with immigration and too much EU regulation."
  2. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    25 Oct '17 19:021 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/17/evidence-failing-brexit-prophecy-remainers-doom

    "With evidence of a failing Brexit, who needs prophecy?
    It’s tempting for remainers to predict doom, but much better to judge the project
    against all of the leavers’ broken promises."
    --Rafael Behr

    "It is easy for pro-Europeans to scoff at Brexiters who blame insufficient exuberance for the
    slow fulfilment of their dream, when it is the dream itself that is failing to measure up to reality.
    But anyone so tempted should remember that leavers also laugh at shroud-waving remainers,
    on whose head the post-referendum sky failed to fall despite apocalyptic forecasts.
    One side cries delusion; the other, hysteria.

    I happen to think that facts favoured the anti-Brexit argument last year and that the leavers
    now demand positive thinking because they feel events unfolding at a negative angle.
    If there wasn’t a gap between what was promised and what can be delivered, there
    would be no need for leaps of faith."
  3. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    25 Oct '17 19:05
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/16/theresa-may-brexit-cant-be-done

    "The time has come for Theresa May to tell the nation: Brexit can’t be done.
    The hard-liners in her party will howl with rage, but most of the country will welcome it
    if the prime minister is honest about Brexit’s awful consequences."
    --Alastair Campbell
  4. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
    Joined
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    11009
    25 Oct '17 19:171 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/24/michael-bloomberg-brexit-is-stupidest-thing-any-country-has-done-besides-trump

    "Michael Bloomberg: Brexit is stupidest thing any country has done besides Trump."

    "Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire media mogul and former mayor of
    New York, has said Brexit is the “single stupidest thing any country h ...[text shortened]... campaign and its
    claims that Britain had problems with immigration and too much EU regulation."
    Ah Bloomberg, the guy who decided not to stand in the 2016 US presidential election as it could 'diminish the Democratic vote and lead to the election of Trump.'

    What wondrous vision this man possesses. We better listen to his views on Brexit as if he were a demigod.
  5. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
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    25 Oct '17 19:21
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Ah Bloomberg, the guy who decided not to stand in the 2016 US presidential election as it could 'diminish the Democratic vote and lead to the election of Trump.'

    What wondrous vision this man possesses. We better listen to his views on Brexit as if he were a demigod.
    Bloomberg was absolutely right that his candidacy would have made it easier for Trump. That Trump won anyway is beside the point.
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
    Joined
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    11009
    25 Oct '17 19:28
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/16/theresa-may-brexit-cant-be-done

    "The time has come for Theresa May to tell the nation: Brexit can’t be done.
    The hard-liners in her party will howl with rage, but most of the country will welcome it
    if the prime minister is honest about Brexit’s awful consequences."
    --Alastair Campbell
    "Having been at the heart of such a positive Brexit experience, it makes me sad and frustrated to see our confident national spirit being chipped away at by the negative Brexit voices. Especially at just the time when we need to be reminding ourselves of the very national identity and character that makes us so unique, so competitive and such an example to the rest of the world.

    In the same way that the fear-mongers tried so miserably to destroy our sense of self during the referendum campaign, the same whining nay-sayers are now doing their best to stifle our re-emerging sense of national identity. I wish them all the success they had on the 23rd of June.

    As a country, we have often been at our best when forced to define ourselves by what we are not. In so doing, we remind ourselves of everything that we are. It may not always be easy to define the British national character - but it's certainly something that can be felt. And this negativity feels wrong.

    Brexit: the catalyst our country needs

    I am proud to say that I am not like those who wish to talk down our country and talk up our overstated dependence on the EU. And, for the record, I cannot begin to express the positivity I personally feel towards Brexit.

    It is the chance of a lifetime (and my children's lifetime) to truly engage in a positive reaffirmation of what we are not, and therefore what we have the potential to be, on our own terms. Being confident in our own abilities and talents. Providing a new social and business context that forces us towards self-reliance through innovation. With a determination to do better and be better.

    Brexit has the potential to turn the UK into an incubator for fresh thinking that will positively influence our politics, business, social structures, cultural output... and a lot more besides. If we take this chance, we will enjoy a rare opportunity to support positive proactivity across all areas of society. This will drive new thinking, new solutions and new ways to engage with the wider world, not just our nearest neighbours. Britain as the progressive fly in the ointment: the challenge and the competition. The difference.

    Far from being a retrograde step, as so many are depicting Brexit, I feel wholeheartedly that it is a call to action for a progressive national agenda. Are we really so out of shape as a country that we have to fear this unknown? Why on earth are so many voices determined to talk down our capabilities and potential to improve across so many areas? How very un-British."

    Sven Hughes - Group CEO of Verbalisation and Global Influence.
  7. Joined
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    26 Oct '17 08:58
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    "...
    Far from being a retrograde step, as so many are depicting Brexit, I feel wholeheartedly that it is a call to action for a progressive national agenda. Are we really so out of shape as a country that we have to fear this unknown? Why on earth are so many voices determined to talk down our capabilities and potential to improve across so many areas? How very un-British."

    Sven Hughes - Group CEO of Verbalisation and Global Influence.
    "Yes, but you don't go!"
    -- Major-General Stanley.
  8. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
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    26 Oct '17 10:15
    I’m positive the rights of individuals, the poor, the working masses and women are better served by a Tory government, than by Europe.

    I’m sure trusting the future to May, Johnson, Gove, etc. Is a great thing to do.
    I’d trust them to babysit my daughter...
  9. Joined
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    26 Oct '17 12:231 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/16/theresa-may-brexit-cant-be-done

    "The time has come for Theresa May to tell the nation: Brexit can’t be done.
    The hard-liners in her party will howl with rage, but most of the country will welcome it
    if the prime minister is honest about Brexit’s awful consequences."
    --Alastair Campbell
    Awful consequences?

    I'm still waiting for them. I was told last year there would be awful consequences.

    Freedom does have a price tag. When the US broke away from the Royal Crown, they no longer had an army to "protect" them, nor did they have access to their money. Then they had to form their own government and start over.

    If I were in England though, I would be mindful of the fact that my country fought for freedom from mainland Europe through two world wars. Why, after all that blood spilled, would I willingly just lay down and let them take over?
  10. Joined
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    26 Oct '17 12:26
    Originally posted by @sh76
    Bloomberg was absolutely right that his candidacy would have made it easier for Trump. That Trump won anyway is beside the point.
    Bloomberg has no future in the DNC. He is not a frothing at the mouth socialist like Bernie.
  11. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
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    26 Oct '17 12:50
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Awful consequences?

    I'm still waiting for them. I was told last year there would be awful consequences.

    Freedom does have a price tag. When the US broke away from the Royal Crown, they no longer had an army to "protect" them, nor did they have access to their money. Then they had to form their own government and start over.

    If I were in England t ...[text shortened]... ars. Why, after all that blood spilled, would I willingly just lay down and let them take over?
    What a comprehensive understanding of history you display there.

    England fought two world wars to be free from Europe???
  12. Joined
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    26 Oct '17 12:511 edit
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    What a comprehensive understanding of history you display there.

    England fought two world wars to be free from Europe???
    Specifically, mainland Europe and the National Socialists..

    Even when England announced Brexit, I had my doubts as to the success of it.

    Not that they could be successful after Brexit, but in the ability to break from it.

    Socialism is like the mob, you can join, but you can never leave alive.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
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    26 Oct '17 12:53
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    "Having been at the heart of such a positive Brexit experience, it makes me sad and frustrated to see our confident national spirit being chipped away at by the negative Brexit voices. Especially at just the time when we need to be reminding ourselves of the very national identity and character that makes us so unique, so competitive and such an exa ...[text shortened]... y areas? How very un-British."

    Sven Hughes - Group CEO of Verbalisation and Global Influence.
    This quoted section contains the word "we" used 11 times and the word "our" used 16 times.

    I would kind of doubt that the man, whose company and book advocates what is known as Weaponized Narrative, would be considered a kind of British "everyman".

    In fact, I'm even wondering how this person became known to you in the first place.
  14. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
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    26 Oct '17 12:55
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    What a comprehensive understanding of history you display there.

    England fought two world wars to be free from Europe???
    I guess according to him, Hitler WAS Europe.
  15. Joined
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    26 Oct '17 12:57
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    I guess according to him, Hitler WAS Europe.
    He almost was.
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