Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
    24 Apr '10
    Moves
    14639
    12 Apr '18 12:25
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    You've dropped the right wing thing, at least I've taught you something.
    Keep ignoring the real-world consequences of the type of discrimination that you find acceptable, Wujumu.

    People not getting jobs, having a much, much harder time climbing the social ladder, not getting the same opportunities others get, because of vacuous reasons such as gender, age, skin colour.

    It's real, it happens, it's not theory, it directly affects people everywhere right now. Keep ignoring it, Wujumu. What do you care, right?
  2. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
    Joined
    26 Dec '07
    Moves
    17585
    12 Apr '18 12:331 edit
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    I lost my job about a year ago and have been unemployed since and it's been absolute hell to get back to work.

    I've been rejected for jobs I applied for because of my age. Not literally, mind you. Through indirect discrimination. I've been told "this employer is only interested in employees who've been working for a maximum of two years".

    This ...[text shortened]... automation in all kinds of jobs looming more and more, you are fine with these hiring practices?
    === I've been told "this employer is only interested in employees who've been working for a maximum of two years". ===

    This statement would probably be considered strong evidence of a violation of of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act in the US. I've seen people win cases with less.

    Sounds like perhaps you'd be more protected in Fatland than you are in Utopia over there.
  3. SubscriberWajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    Provocation
    Joined
    01 Sep '04
    Moves
    65608
    12 Apr '18 12:401 edit
    Originally posted by @sh76
    === I've been told "this employer is only interested in employees who've been working for a maximum of two years". ===

    This statement would probably be considered strong evidence of a violation of of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act in the US. I've seen people win cases with less.

    Sounds like perhaps you'd be more protected in Fatland than you are in Utopia over there.
    You're right, they should say nothing waste everyone's time then hire a young person so they can get some work experience under their belt anyway.

    Kinda dishonest, but anything to appease the control freaks,whiners and perpetual victims.
  4. Joined
    24 Apr '10
    Moves
    14639
    12 Apr '18 12:45
    Originally posted by @sh76
    === I've been told "this employer is only interested in employees who've been working for a maximum of two years". ===

    This statement would probably be considered strong evidence of a violation of of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act in the US. I've seen people win cases with less.

    Sounds like perhaps you'd be more protected in Fatland than you are in Utopia over there.
    Wrong.

    It is almost certainly considered unlawful age-discrimination.

    I've already communicated my case with a Dutch "rights agency" (https://www.mensenrechten.nl/mission-and-ambition) and I expect to hear something back from them soon. After that, I may or may not go to court.

    "Indirect age-discrimination" is mostly not allowed over here, but that doesn't mean companies and job-agencies are never guilty of exactly that. It's up to us and the law to punish them when they do.

    Also, I don't live in Utopia. Not sure what gave you that idea. Lots of things go wrong in The Netherlands. We're a flawed people as well. Just not yet quite as fat - but give us a few years.
  5. SubscriberWajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    Provocation
    Joined
    01 Sep '04
    Moves
    65608
    12 Apr '18 12:551 edit
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    Wrong.

    It is almost certainly considered unlawful age-discrimination.

    I've already communicated my case with a Dutch "rights agency" (https://www.mensenrechten.nl/mission-and-ambition) and I expect to hear something back from them soon. After that, I may or may not go to court.

    "Indirect age-discrimination" is mostly not allowed over here, b ...[text shortened]... Netherlands. We're a flawed people as well. Just not yet quite as fat - but give us a few years.
    Hope you win, so some young person can get the sack, and you'll get their job at a place where no one wants you, should be quite satisfying for you, very rewarding.

    It's a shame because the young person that has the job may well have made a better go of preparing for their latter years than what you did.

    Can't discriminate for 'x' without discriminating against 'y'.
  6. Joined
    24 Apr '10
    Moves
    14639
    12 Apr '18 13:11
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Hope you win, so some young person can get the sack, and you'll get their job at a place where no one wants you, should be quite satisfying for you, very rewarding.

    It's a shame because the young person that has the job may well have made a better go of preparing for their latter years than what you did.

    Can't discriminate for 'x' without discriminating against 'y'.
    Yes, that's right, Wujumu.

    If it is determined that the job-agency is discriminating in an unlawful fashion then "some young person" will get "the sack" and I'll get their job.

    That's exactly what's going to happen.

    Meanwhile, keep ignoring the fact that people of certain demographics have a significantly harder time getting a job and earning some money, because they're no longer "young".

    Nothing wrong there.
  7. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    12 Apr '18 18:26
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Not sure what your point is here. I would expect the guvamint to have internal guidelines that employees must conform to. If an employee is not conforming to those guidelines, for example, coming in late, leaving early, messing about on a chess site during work hours or only hiring their relatives and friends then they should face disciplinary action, may ...[text shortened]... ent. Employees should follow the terms and conditions they have agreed to or face consequences.
    You said: "I don't believe there should be any remedial action [...] whatever the gap is [...]."

    Having a guideline to prevent gender discrimination (and enforcing it) is a kind of remedial action.
  8. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    12 Apr '18 18:28
    Originally posted by @sh76
    === I've been told "this employer is only interested in employees who've been working for a maximum of two years". ===

    This statement would probably be considered strong evidence of a violation of of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act in the US. I've seen people win cases with less.

    Sounds like perhaps you'd be more protected in Fatland than you are in Utopia over there.
    There is anti-age-discrimination legislation in Utopia as well. Most victims of discrimination don't take their cases to court.
  9. Standard memberuzless
    The So Fist
    Voice of Reason
    Joined
    28 Mar '06
    Moves
    9908
    12 Apr '18 20:36
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    I gave it a thumbs down, because it is not true that the fact that there are disproportionately few women in STEM-fields in North America explains the gender pay gap; moreover, the article doesn't even make that claim. Did you read the article?
    Yes it does....very clearly.

    "And where it becomes particularly significant is that those STEM jobs are typically among the highest-paid professions. So getting more women to study math, the discipline at the core of many STEM jobs, could significantly narrow or close the overall gender wage gap."
  10. Standard memberuzless
    The So Fist
    Voice of Reason
    Joined
    28 Mar '06
    Moves
    9908
    12 Apr '18 20:411 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    From the article:

    Women working in STEM often end up in lower-paying technical jobs as opposed to professional roles and earn only 82 per cent of what men do. So women, fearing both wage discrimination and a glass ceiling in STEM workplaces dominated by men, opt to pursue other career paths.

    Kinda hard to see how getting more women into STEM field ...[text shortened]... liminate the gender pay gap when the STEM fields have a significant gender pay gap of their own.
    You have to eliminate the glass ceiling, that's how. STEM jobs are some of the highest paying jobs so if women are NOT in STEM jobs, they will by default have lower paying jobs.

    The key is not to get those lower paying jobs to pay more, the key is to get women into higher paying STEM jobs. Once they are in the higher paying jobs, then you can work on getting them into the upper management STEM jobs, like CEO, President, CFO etc.

    That's where the real problem is. The pay gap is because men have more of the super high paying jobs like CEO, not because women are paid less for doing the same entry level job as a man.
  11. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    12 Apr '18 21:04
    Originally posted by @uzless
    Yes it does....very clearly.

    "And where it becomes particularly significant is that those STEM jobs are typically among the highest-paid professions. So getting more women to study math, the discipline at the core of many STEM jobs, could significantly narrow or close the overall gender wage gap."
    Obviously, the overall gender pay gap cannot be closed just by narrowing it in STEM fields, and it is not what is meant here.
  12. SubscriberWajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    Provocation
    Joined
    01 Sep '04
    Moves
    65608
    13 Apr '18 08:36
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    You said: "I don't believe there should be any remedial action [...] whatever the gap is [...]."

    Having a guideline to prevent gender discrimination (and enforcing it) is a kind of remedial action.
    This is your Mr Bean routine, playing the bumbling idjit? News for KN: It doesn't translate well to the debates board.

    You'd like to stretch the word 'remedial' until it twangs. A company stipulating that you shouldn't steal the sugar from the cafe would be 'remedial', expecting employees to arrive on time would be 'remedial', don't put graffiti all over the walls in the crapper 'remedial'. Expecting a good reason for employees to take sick days, 'remedial', Requiring employees to preform their duties according to guidelines 'remedial' Don't take a dump and hide it under the foremans bench 'remedial'

    zahlanzi logic 🙄
  13. SubscriberWajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    Provocation
    Joined
    01 Sep '04
    Moves
    65608
    13 Apr '18 09:10
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    There is anti-age-discrimination legislation in Utopia as well. Most victims of discrimination don't take their cases to court.
    Could it be, that despite your best wishes and dream feelings, most people don't see themselves as victims.

    It's ironic that it's the honest people who get punished, if they say nothing even though they're looking for a young person (which I think is commendable, it's crucial for young people to get work experience) they get to waste a lot of peoples time, they've got GKR on a string thinking he's got a shot. I prefer honesty. You're looking for a young employee? Say so, no problem, don't lead people on.

    I've experienced it, got tired of welding, looked at drafting, applied for a course at polytech, was told it would help if I were Maori. Say no more, I'm not going to go whining and bitching, there's this thing called the internet, the information highway, don't need no shytty racist goobermint education.
  14. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    13 Apr '18 21:41
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    This is your Mr Bean routine, playing the bumbling idjit? News for KN: It doesn't translate well to the debates board.

    You'd like to stretch the word 'remedial' until it twangs. A company stipulating that you shouldn't steal the sugar from the cafe would be 'remedial', expecting employees to arrive on time would be 'remedial', don't put graffiti all ov ...[text shortened]... emedial' Don't take a dump and hide it under the foremans bench 'remedial'

    zahlanzi logic 🙄
    It's my pointing out your inconsistencies routine. Sadly your only response to it is a Trumpesque doubling down. Do you still want to ban hospitals?
  15. Standard memberuzless
    The So Fist
    Voice of Reason
    Joined
    28 Mar '06
    Moves
    9908
    15 Apr '18 04:33
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Obviously, the overall gender pay gap cannot be closed just by narrowing it in STEM fields, and it is not what is meant here.
    uh, The whole point of this thread is about getting women into STEM as per the Original post....
Back to Top