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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    02 Mar '17 09:59
    If you listen to the chattering classes, then Trump's speech to Congress, signals the moment where he finally became Presidential, and the cooler adults in the room took over the hotheaded rhetoric of Bannon.

    Is anyone convinced that Trump will improve with on the job training and that possibly he will emerge as a leader that all Americans can respect, or in going in hard to establish "Trump normal" by first lowering our expectations to the extent that we cheer for blandness, has he put too many offside for any pivot to the middle to be of value in terms of gaining bi-partisan support for his mandated agenda.
  2. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Mar '17 10:35
    Originally posted by kmax87
    If you listen to the chattering classes, then Trump's speech to Congress, signals the moment where he finally became Presidential, and the cooler adults in the room took over the hotheaded rhetoric of Bannon.

    Is anyone convinced that Trump will improve with on the job training and that possibly he will emerge as a leader that all Americans can respect, or ...[text shortened]... ot to the middle to be of value in terms of gaining bi-partisan support for his mandated agenda.
    .... or has Third Way politics under the Clintons made Democrats perfectly open to fascism and incapable of principled opposition?
  3. 02 Mar '17 11:03 / 1 edit
    What President did all Americans respect?

    Closest I've seen is Reagan.
  4. 02 Mar '17 11:19
    Originally posted by kmax87
    If you listen to the chattering classes, then Drumpf's speech to Congress, signals the moment where he finally became Presidential, and the cooler adults in the room took over the hotheaded rhetoric of Bannon.

    Is anyone convinced that Drumpf will improve with on the job training and that possibly he will emerge as a leader that all Americans can respect, o ...[text shortened]... ot to the middle to be of value in terms of gaining bi-partisan support for his mandated agenda.
    someone tweeted this:

    "Abusive father has a good night. The abused members of his family are hopeful this means he will change his ways"

    a racist, idiotic ashole manages to go through an entire speech without insulting too many people (except the despicable way he used the mother of a deceased soldier for his political gain), and the media starts applauding him? like he deserves praise for acting somewhat normal?

    the bear minimum of human decency is praise worthy now? really?
  5. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    02 Mar '17 11:41
    Originally posted by finnegan
    .... or has Third Way politics under the Clintons made Democrats perfectly open to fascism and incapable of principled opposition?
    I think the incremental push to the right that gained momentum under Reagan, exacerbated by Clinton's Third Way, turbocharged by 'W's' neocon activism and entrenched by the debt strapped incrementalism of Obama presented Trump fertile soil to capture the hearts and minds with fascist rhetoric.

    For 30 years the victims of poverty and a lack of opportunity have been vilified as the cause of their failure, while those who have benefited from the economies great wealth have been increasingly convinced that you can receive greater benefit while contributing less. Within this context it's inevitable that a populist like Trump could sweep the board with his nationalistic jingoism that will further dissolve the middle class and accelerate the social divide till the fascist shift his policies will engender, will see the ruin of the American Empire and give rise to a failed post Peron-like Argentinian State, in the aftermath.

    The media has much to answer for because they have followed the money, a few steps behind the leading neocon edge to be sure, but nevertheless turning away from their function of talking truth to power.

    I am not sure when it happened but at some point people got tired of having a social conscience and of being reminded they were their brother's keeper. Yet in searing their conscience of any social commitment, in terms of the politics they willingly subscribe to and support, the people have by their abrogation of social responsibility laid themselves bare to be manipulated and played, while they have been made witness to the destruction of the strength of their middle class values built on notions of meritorious rise through hard work and conservative management of personal wealth. Their once unnasailable position, has been eroded by fiscal treachery that has seeded the plough of the grass roots populism that Trump if unapposed will prove to be the final nail in the coffin of the ordinary American.
  6. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    02 Mar '17 12:09
    Originally posted by Eladar
    What President did all Americans respect?

    Closest I've seen is Reagan.
    Washington, G.
  7. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    02 Mar '17 12:54
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Washington, G.
    Only because he could not tell lies.
  8. Standard member checkbaiter
    By God's Grace
    02 Mar '17 13:23
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    someone tweeted this:

    "Abusive father has a good night. The abused members of his family are hopeful this means he will change his ways"

    a racist, idiotic ashole manages to go through an entire speech without insulting too many people (except the despicable way he used the mother of a deceased soldier for his political gain), and the media starts appl ...[text shortened]... for acting somewhat normal?

    the bear minimum of human decency is praise worthy now? really?
    Why don't you tell us how you really feel?
  9. 02 Mar '17 14:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Washington, G.
    Now, but not back then I'm sure. Even now some don't like him. He owned slaves didn't he?
  10. 02 Mar '17 16:28
    I don't respect people who are universally respected; therefore there are no such people.
  11. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    02 Mar '17 21:37
    Originally posted by JS357
    I don't respect people who are universally respected; therefore there are no such people.
    Sounds like a lateral version of not wanting to join any club that would have you as a member, or determining the motive of one that professes love for you as being suspect because you deem yourself unlovable....
  12. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    02 Mar '17 21:50
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    .....the bare minimum of human decency is praise worthy now? really?
    The whole nation is having its Stockholm Syndrome moment.

    The question is, and it's debatable, was this a deliberate strategy from the outset, to maniacally put everyone offside to the extent that the slightest appearance of normalcy brings rapturous applause, or is he Trump really an unhinged soul teetering on the edge, that has been momentarily swayed by the positive forces within the space of competing voices that surround his head?
  13. 02 Mar '17 22:44
    Originally posted by kmax87
    The whole nation is having its Stockholm Syndrome moment.

    The question is, and it's debatable, was this a deliberate strategy from the outset, to maniacally put everyone offside to the extent that the slightest appearance of normalcy brings rapturous applause, or is he Trump really an unhinged soul teetering on the edge, that has been momentarily swayed by the positive forces within the space of competing voices that surround his head?
    Or are you perhaps just reading far too much into the fact that he stuck to his prepared speech? Its not the first time he has done it. And it was still a speech full of untruths.

    I suspect 'the whole nation' is actually a handful of media outlets that you happened to watch, and since the media mostly just copy off each other like a bunch of parrots, what you really heard was the echo's of just one or two people who make up the most sensationalist thing they could think to say after the speech.
  14. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    02 Mar '17 23:19
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    ....I suspect 'the whole nation' is actually a handful of media outlets that you happened to watch, and since the media mostly just copy off each other like a bunch of parrots, what you really heard was the echo's of just one or two people who make up the most sensationalist thing they could think to say after the speech.
    Given my lack of real American friends, how else other than the media/ my own cdf/the voices of 'reason' on this forum, could I develop a sense of Trump's Presidency and whether he resonates in sync with the silent majority?

    That the echo of a few is repeated and amplified does not in of itself discredit its validity.

    How would you assess the general mood out there, or is that too nebulous a discussion for you to engage with?
  15. 03 Mar '17 00:08
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    someone tweeted this:

    "Abusive father has a good night. The abused members of his family are hopeful this means he will change his ways"

    a racist, idiotic ashole manages to go through an entire speech without insulting too many people (except the despicable way he used the mother of a deceased soldier for his political gain), and the media starts appl ...[text shortened]... for acting somewhat normal?

    the bear minimum of human decency is praise worthy now? really?
    BEAR minimum. Is that a grizzly or brown/black BARE?