Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    04 Feb '19 04:292 edits
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/03/john-chau-christian-missionary-death-sentinelese

    "In November [2018] on an obscure island in the Indian Ocean, Chau – a 26-year-old
    American adventure blogger, beef-jerky marketer, and evangelical missionary –
    was killed by the isolated tribe he was attempting to convert to Christianity."

    "After talking with people who knew him, and delving into the blogposts, diary
    writings, photos, and social media he left behind, a complicated picture emerges.
    Chau’s decision to contact the Sentinelese, who have made it clear over
    the years that they prefer to be left alone, was indefensibly reckless.
    But it was not a spontaneous act of recklessness by a dim-witted thrill-seeker;
    it was a premeditated act of recklessness by a fairly intelligent and thoughtful
    thrill-seeker who spent years preparing, understood the risks, including to
    his own life, and believed his purpose on Earth was to bring Christ to the
    island he considered “Satan’s last stronghold”."

    "When Chau’s death became international news, many Christians
    were keen to disavow his actions; Chau’s father believes the
    American missionary community is culpable in his son’s death.
    John was an “innocent child”, his father told me, who died from
    an “extreme” vision of Christianity taken to its logical conclusion."

    "Like his son, Dr Patrick Chau [a psychiatrist] is a graduate of Oral Roberts,
    an evangelical university in Oklahoma. I had thought he might want
    to defend evangelical doctrines against the unsympathetic media
    coverage sparked by his son’s death. In an email, however, he called
    religion “the opium of the mass[es]”.

    “If you have [anything] positive to say about religion,” he told me,
    “l wish not to see or hear” it. He said his son’s zeal was a longstanding point
    of contention and that they’d agreed not to talk about John’s missionary work.
    “John is gone because the Western ideology overpowered my
    [Confucian] influence,” he said. He blamed evangelicals’ “extreme
    Christianity” for pushing his child to a “not unexpected end”, and
    he referred with particular bitterness to the Great Commission,
    Jesus’s injunction that Christians spread the gospel to all peoples."
  2. Behind the scenes
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    04 Feb '19 12:01
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/03/john-chau-christian-missionary-death-sentinelese

    "In November [2018] on an obscure island in the Indian Ocean, Chau – a 26-year-old
    American adventure blogger, beef-jerky marketer, and evangelical missionary –
    was killed by the isolated tribe he was attempting to convert to Christianity."

    "After talking with people who ...[text shortened]... ess to the Great Commission,
    Jesus’s injunction that Christians spread the gospel to all peoples."
    Western ideology overpowered my [Confucian] influence,” he said. He blamed evangelicals’ “extreme Christianity” for pushing his child to a “not unexpected end”, and he referred with particular bitterness to the Great Commission, Jesus’s injunction that Christians spread the gospel to all peoples."


    Translation: It's the white man's fault! 😠
  3. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    04 Feb '19 15:575 edits
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/03/john-chau-christian-missionary-death-sentinelese

    "In November [2018] on an obscure island in the Indian Ocean, Chau – a 26-year-old
    American adventure blogger, beef-jerky marketer, and evangelical missionary –
    was killed by the isolated tribe he was attempting to convert to Christianity."

    "After talking with people who ...[text shortened]... ess to the Great Commission,
    Jesus’s injunction that Christians spread the gospel to all peoples."
    Well, almost all of Christs disciples were murdered for spreading the Gospel; including Jesus Himself, and the apostle Paul. That being said, I do not like most contemporary evangelicals myself; all due to their whodey like lies and false witness against democrats and about the abortion issue. They lie and twist scriptures and have even changed scriptures in the Bible since the 1980s to fit their political and personal agenda's. Many of today's Evangelicals are more of a evil lying political party attempting to take over the USA, and the world by any means; including lies, false witness, and even murder. In my eyes and according to the Bible they are not Christians at all and they follow the spirit of the anti-Christ. They are the reason Trump is in the oval office today. That proves my point right there. I also look at the history of the Christian church and all the atrocities they have done to many people since about 100 years after Christ left. Many people who claim to be Christians are not Christians at all. I now understand why God said only a small remnant will actually be saved; and it's not most who claim to be Christians today.
  4. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    04 Feb '19 16:011 edit
    @mchill said
    Western ideology overpowered my [Confucian] influence,” he said. He blamed evangelicals’ “extreme Christianity” for pushing his child to a “not unexpected end”, and he referred with particular bitterness to the Great Commission, Jesus’s injunction that Christians spread the gospel to all peoples."


    Translation: It's the white man's fault! 😠
    Translation: It's the white man's fault!
    I don't see that at all in this post. There are many black evangelicals also. Plus, was not this father and son white? Edit: Yep!
  5. Zugzwang
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    04 Feb '19 19:47
    @mchill said
    Western ideology overpowered my [Confucian] influence,” he said. He blamed evangelicals’ “extreme Christianity” for pushing his child to a “not unexpected end”, and he referred with particular bitterness to the Great Commission, Jesus’s injunction that Christians spread the gospel to all peoples.

    Translation: It's the white man's fault! 😠
    First of all, the racist troll Mchill shows no empathy for the grief of a man whose son
    has recently been killed. Instead, Mchill seizes upon it as his opportunity to incite racism.

    The racist troll Mchill seems ignorant of the fact that Dr Patrick Chau's wife and
    John Chau's mother is a white woman (a lawyer). If Dr Patrick Chau (a psychiatrist)
    blindly hated all white people, then why would he have married one?
  6. Zugzwang
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    04 Feb '19 19:53
    @kingdavid403 said
    Translation: It's the white man's fault!
    I don't see that at all in this post. There are many black evangelicals also. Plus, was not this father and son white? Edit: Yep!
    (KingDavid403 replied to Mchill.)
    Mchill has a long record as a lying racist troll.

    "Plus, was not this father and son white?"
    --KingDavid403

    Dr Patrick Chau's an American of Chinese heritage.
    His wife (and John Chau's mother) is apparently a white American.

    "Chau was raised in a Christian home and his family appear to have been members of the Assemblies of God."

    Evidently, Dr Patrick Chau is (or was) a Christian. He condemns the 'extreme'
    evangelical Christians who he believes misled his naive son to his violent death.
  7. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    04 Feb '19 20:392 edits
    @duchess64 said
    (KingDavid403 replied to Mchill.)
    Mchill has a long record as a lying racist troll.

    "Plus, was not this father and son white?"
    --KingDavid403

    Dr Patrick Chau's an American of Chinese heritage.
    His wife (and John Chau's mother) is apparently a white American.

    "Chau was raised in a Christian home and his family appear to have been members of the Assemblies of God ...[text shortened]... ns the 'extreme'
    evangelical Christians who he believes misled his naive son to his violent death.
    Assemblies of God
    That explains it to me. I've had many problems with the Assemblies of God church. Their number 1 church doctrine says that unless you speak in tongues, you are not saved. The Bible very clearly says that not all speak in tongues. So, their number one church doctrine in nothing but a lie and twisted interpretation of some Bible scriptures. They judge people falsely and tell them they're going to hell unless they babble in tongues in public. Little kids and all. My old pastor at Assemblies of God told me in a large Bible study before service that I was going to hell for voting for Obama. LOL, I bet he and the others won't ever do that to someone again; and, that was the last time I've ever stepped into a Assemblies of God Church. I could write a best selling book on all the problems I've personally had at Assemble of God churches. They are something else.
    Thanks for letting me know he was a Chinese American married to a white woman. I looked up a picture of the son that was murdered and he looked mostly white to me, so I assumed the father was white also. Thanks for correcting me.
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    04 Feb '19 20:421 edit
    @Duchess64
    The reaction from the Christian community is expected since they would want to distance themselves from this man who knew what he was getting into.

    That tribe is not the 'last stronghold of Satan' whatever that means.
    That tribe is doing fine on its own and doesn't want contact with the outer world and has said so quite clearly, and I think that missionary is not the only one killed there so it is foolish in the extreme to have gone into that territory in the first place. I assume this guy thought god would save him since he sincerely thought he was doing 'god's' work. Which he decidedly wasn't but that is neither here nor there. He went into hostile territory and that was that.

    His father is grieving and for good reason since it doesn't matter how his son died, his son died, that is all he needs to know, whatever motivation was for his death, the father grieves like any parent would at the loss of a son, which we did also, lost a daughter way too early, the jewel of our family.

    So I do feel for the parent but the son knew what he was getting into so I have limited empathy for him. I saw similar things happen when I lived in Thailand, not a death but a jail sentence and deportation, where a Mormon missionary family, very arrogant about being in this land of savages, went to Bangkok and took pictures of themselves on top of the Emerald Buddha and then another member repeated that offense and were stupid enough to send the photos to be processed at a local Thai photo shop.

    The owner, being a Buddhist, was incensed and gave the photo's to the police. So the Mormons were arrested, thrown in jail for 6 months and THEN deported.
    Not as extreme as being killed and I guess these idiots did not know they were violating Thai law but they got what they deserved and I don't think they ever sent any more Mormons to proselytize in Thailand again.

    Christians seem to think 'since we are the ones saved and going to heaven' we are MUCH better than ANY native tribe since they are such savages and deserve whatever fate they get for their proselytizing. The father, though still gets my empathy due to the loss of his son.
  9. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    04 Feb '19 20:44
    @sonhouse said
    @Duchess64
    The reaction from the Christian community is expected since they would want to distance themselves from this man who knew what he was getting into.

    That tribe is not the 'last stronghold of Satan' whatever that means.
    That tribe is doing fine on its own and doesn't want contact with the outer world and has said so quite clearly, and I think that missionary is ...[text shortened]... y get for their proselytizing. The father, though still gets my empathy due to the loss of his son.
    I agree 100%.
  10. Zugzwang
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    04 Feb '19 21:31
    @kingdavid403 said
    Assemblies of God
    That explains it to me. I've had many problems with the Assemblies of God church. Their number 1 church doctrine says that unless you speak in tongues, you are not saved. The Bible very clearly says that not all speak in tongues. So, their number one church doctrine in nothing but a lie and twisted interpretation of some Bible scriptures. ...[text shortened]... and he looked mostly white to me, so I assumed the father was white also. Thanks for correcting me.
    It does not seem accurate to assume that the Assemblies of God was the only Christian influence in John Chau's life.

    "At Oral Roberts [University], Chau was more completely immersed in evangelical
    culture than ever before. The conservative university forbids smoking, drinking,
    swearing, and any kind of sexual relations outside heterosexual marriage.

    Chau traveled frequently. He spent one summer during college at a Christian soccer
    academy in South Africa. After graduating in 2014, he went on a trip to Kurdistan
    to do outreach to refugees, as well as a trip to Israel sponsored by Covenant
    Journey, an organization founded by the rightwing Christian activist Mat Staver.

    John Middleton Ramsey met Chau in Israel. He was relaxed and “easy to connect with”,
    Ramsey recalled, and “preferred one-on-one conversation as opposed to larger groups”.
    He was “good-looking and received a fair share of female attention, but very humble”."

    John Chau does not seem to have been a 'loner' or a social 'misfit'.
    If he had been less obsessed with the Sentinelese, he could have settled for a life
    as a Christian pastor in the USA.
  11. Zugzwang
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    04 Feb '19 21:571 edit
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2018/12/first-woman-chattopadhyay-contact-sentinelese-andaman/

    "Meet the first woman to contact one of the world’s most isolated tribes
    Anthropologist Madhumala Chattopadhyay floated coconuts to the Sentinelese
    in an unusually friendly exchange with a tribe hostile to outsiders."

    It has been hypothesized that the Sentinelese were less hostile toward her
    because she's a woman, whom they did not perceive as a threat.
  12. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    05 Feb '19 15:56
    @duchess64 said
    It does not seem accurate to assume that the Assemblies of God was the only Christian influence in John Chau's life.

    "At Oral Roberts [University], Chau was more completely immersed in evangelical
    culture than ever before. The conservative university forbids smoking, drinking,
    swearing, and any kind of sexual relations outside heterosexual marriage.

    Chau traveled ...[text shortened]... s obsessed with the Sentinelese, he could have settled for a life
    as a Christian pastor in the USA.
    I agree. I'm going on my own personal five or six years of experience with four different Assemblies of God churches. However, I am sure there are some good Assemblies of God congregations with good people; and, there were good people in those churches where my personal experience comes from. However, as I've already stated, I do not get along with the majority of evangelicals, their mind control church doctrines and political stances, etc.
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