Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member vivify
    rain
    31 Jan '17 16:33 / 2 edits
    just how far can an executive order go? For example, if Obama wanted to legalize gay marriage with an executive order, could he have done it? If Trump wanted to make Paul McCartney's birthday a national holiday, could he do it? Could the president declare a new national anthem or a new state bird (instead of the eagle)?

    I'm just wondering if anyone can fill me in on the legal limits of presidential executive orders. As far as I know, they can't be overturned by Congress (though they can be declared unconstitutional). Any help would be appreciated.
  2. 31 Jan '17 16:56
    Originally posted by vivify
    just how far can an executive order go? For example, if Obama wanted to legalize gay marriage with an executive order, could he have done it? If Trump wanted to make Paul McCartney's birthday a national holiday, could he do it? Could the president declare a new national anthem or a new state bird (instead of the eagle)?

    I'm just wondering if anyone ca ...[text shortened]... rned by Congress (though they can be declared unconstitutional). Any help would be appreciated.
    http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2014/01/what-are-executive-orders-what-are-their-limits.html
  3. 31 Jan '17 17:29
    Originally posted by vivify
    just how far can an executive order go? For example, if Obama wanted to legalize gay marriage with an executive order, could he have done it? If Trump wanted to make Paul McCartney's birthday a national holiday, could he do it? Could the president declare a new national anthem or a new state bird (instead of the eagle)?

    I'm just wondering if anyone ca ...[text shortened]... rned by Congress (though they can be declared unconstitutional). Any help would be appreciated.
    Funny how you ask this question only after the shoe is on the other foot.
  4. Standard member checkbaiter
    By God's Grace
    31 Jan '17 17:40
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Funny how you ask this question only after the shoe is on the other foot.
    Indeed, no one questioned the limits of Obama's EO's. At least not Dims.
  5. 31 Jan '17 17:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    just how far can an executive order go? For example, if Obama wanted to legalize gay marriage with an executive order, could he have done it? If Trump wanted to make Paul McCartney's birthday a national holiday, could he do it? Could the president declare a new national anthem or a new state bird (instead of the eagle)?

    I'm just wondering if anyone ca ...[text shortened]... rned by Congress (though they can be declared unconstitutional). Any help would be appreciated.
    The sky is the limit!

    It's called a post-constitutional Progressive republic

    But that is not all. He can also appoint bureaucrats to amass a myriad of regulations that are just as good as laws that you can do nothing about, nor Congress.

    Feel the love.
  6. Standard member checkbaiter
    By God's Grace
    31 Jan '17 18:14
    Originally posted by whodey
    The sky is the limit!

    It's called a post-constitutional Progressive republic

    But that is not all. He can also appoint bureaucrats to amass a myriad of regulations that are just as good as laws that you can do nothing about, nor Congress.

    Feel the love.
    Like a King? Who needs Congress or the Senate?
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    31 Jan '17 18:32 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    just how far can an executive order go? For example, if Obama wanted to legalize gay marriage with an executive order, could he have done it? If Trump wanted to make Paul McCartney's birthday a national holiday, could he do it? Could the president declare a new national anthem or a new state bird (instead of the eagle)?

    I'm just wondering if anyone ca ...[text shortened]... rned by Congress (though they can be declared unconstitutional). Any help would be appreciated.
    Executive orders are not legislative actions. In other words, they can only be about how the law is enforced or how the agencies operate.

    Legalizing gay marriage (assuming Obergefell was never decided): No. Marriage recognition is a state function. But he could tell the IRS to start recognizing same sex partnerships from a federal perspective (I believe; this is a bit of a murky one).

    The President can create a federal holiday. He runs the administrative agencies so if he wants to given them off for a day, that's his call. He cannot force states or private companies to recognize the holiday.

    The National Anthem was adopted by federal legislation and so I'd imagine it could only be changed by legislation, though the President could, for example, order the military to play a new song instead at ceremonies.

    When it comes to the military and military structure, the President as, commander in chief, has a lot of latitude. The President cannot declare war, but short of that, the President can do pretty much anything militarily. There is a War Powers Resolution that requires reporting to Congress within 60 days after a military incursion (and withdrawal unless Congress consents) but it's of questionable enforceability.

    The President can also order around administrative agencies by executive order. The President can't, for example, legalize pot, but he can order the DOJ and US Attorneys to stop enforcing federal pot laws. He cannot stop states from enforcing pot laws. He also cannot create new crimes or create sentences beyond their statutory maximums.

    The President cannot make something a crime, but he can order the DOJ to start enforcing already on-the-books crimes more strictly. He cannot make immigration policy, but he can order the USCIS to strictly enforce immigration policy and he can exercise the discretion that federal law often gives him.

    All in all, executive orders are about exercising the latitude has in enforcing the law (which is substantial), but the President cannot create new laws.

    Clear as mud.
  8. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    31 Jan '17 18:35
    How many executive orders did Obama give in 8 years?
    How many did JR give?

    It seems the trend of issueing more than 7 per presidency was set by Bush sr.

    Why?
    What happened in the late 80's to make this a new fashion?
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    31 Jan '17 18:36
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Funny how you ask this question only after the shoe is on the other foot.
    You know, El, sometimes a question is just a question.
  10. 31 Jan '17 18:47
    Originally posted by vivify
    just how far can an executive order go? For example, if Obama wanted to legalize gay marriage with an executive order, could he have done it? If Trump wanted to make Paul McCartney's birthday a national holiday, could he do it? Could the president declare a new national anthem or a new state bird (instead of the eagle)?

    I'm just wondering if anyone ca ...[text shortened]... rned by Congress (though they can be declared unconstitutional). Any help would be appreciated.
    Google is your friend.
  11. Standard member vivify
    rain
    31 Jan '17 19:36 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Funny how you ask this question only after the shoe is on the other foot.
    A) Obama issued the fewest executive orders in the last 120 years

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/23/obama-executive-orders/

    B) Obama is not a proven hot-headed, narcissistic, thin-skinned, racist idiot with no experience, who is actively enacting bigoted legislation against Muslims, and is restricting the passage of scientific information to the public (like with the EPA).
  12. Standard member vivify
    rain
    31 Jan '17 19:38
    Originally posted by sh76
    Executive orders are not legislative actions. In other words, they can only be about how the law is enforced or how the agencies operate.

    Legalizing gay marriage (assuming Obergefell was never decided): No. Marriage recognition is a state function. But he could tell the IRS to start recognizing same sex partnerships from a federal perspective (I believe; th ...[text shortened]... rcing the law (which is substantial), but the President cannot create new laws.

    Clear as mud.
    Thank you for breaking it down.
  13. Standard member vivify
    rain
    31 Jan '17 19:56
    Originally posted by JS357
    http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2014/01/what-are-executive-orders-what-are-their-limits.html
    Thanks. This was useful.
  14. 31 Jan '17 21:00
    Originally posted by vivify
    A) Obama issued the fewest executive orders in the last 120 years

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/23/obama-executive-orders/

    B) Obama is not a proven hot-headed, narcissistic, thin-skinned, racist idiot with no experience, who is actively enacting bigoted legislation against Muslims, and is restricting the passage of scientific information to the public (like with the EPA).
    I don't know about how many, but I do know about having his blocked by the courts. He tried to use his power of executive orders to create law.

    You thought nothing of that.
  15. Standard member vivify
    rain
    31 Jan '17 23:50
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I don't know about how many, but I do know about having his blocked by the courts. He tried to use his power of executive orders to create law.

    You thought nothing of that.
    Given that your side is notorious for fake news (Whodey was caught posting from a fake site), you're going to have to post a link from a non-right wing source before I believe you.