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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    05 Nov '18 19:00
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/28/media-diversity-neo-nazis-reporting

    "The media isn't diverse – and this leads to appalling reporting
    Our racially monolithic media is particularly ill equipped to cover
    an increasingly non-white world ..."

    "... journalism is clearly not based on meritocracy or neutrality.
    Rather, with journalism jobs going to white people 87% of the time
    in the US and a staggering 94% in Britain, journalism is practically a
    white-people-only club that will reward mediocre white journalists before it
    will advance excellent journalists of color who can bring needed perspectives.

    Our racially monolithic mainstream press is particularly ill equipped
    to cover an increasingly non-white world when it declares itself to
    be “objective”. Like other parts of the society, journalism operates
    within an ideology which bell hooks describes as “white supremacist
    capitalist patriarchy”"

    "But while no journalist or news organization is objective, only some of
    us – usually the disabled, queer, women, and journalists of color among
    us – are forced to reckon with this reality. And though we are often
    punished for interrogating our subjectivities, white men (like Mark Lilla,
    Jonathan Chait and Andrew Sullivan) are rewarded for pretending
    like theirs don’t exist – even as they shape our national narratives
    from their subjective point of view. "

    "You can’t have a nearly all white editorial workforce and not have
    it be subjective. Sarah Schulman writes that “Gentrification is a
    process that hides the apparatus of domination from the dominant themselves.”
    In the same way, the myth of objectivity has deluded journalists who
    are white, male, straight, cisgender, able-bodied US citizens into believing
    they are the neutral point against which all other perspectives are a deviation."
  2. Zugzwang
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    05 Nov '18 19:04
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2018/nov/05/newsroom-diversity-media-race-journalism

    "When newsrooms are dominated by white people, they miss crucial facts.
    In a time where race has emerged as a central theme in politics, the media has
    a problem with representation."

    "...the demographics of the Times – and American newspapers in general – look
    nothing like the demographics of the communities they cover. The people who are most likely
    to appear in these kinds of stories are the least likely to have a say in how those stories are told."

    "This underrepresentation of minorities is a more polite way of saying that there
    is an overrepresentation of white people in media..."

    "But it leaves a question unasked: how many people who have the skills to do this
    work never even get the opportunity to try?"
  3. Zugzwang
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    05 Nov '18 19:10
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/25/enduring-whiteness-of-american-journalism

    "The enduring whiteness of the American media.
    What three decades in journalism has taught me about the persistence of racism in the US."

    "Those black people who make their way into the business are heavily concentrated
    in stereotypical roles. This has meant sport, entertainment and especially what is
    euphemistically called urban affairs, often meaning reporting on black people."

    About my only reservation with this article is the implicit assumption (normal among Americans)
    that racism must be a black-white binary. Other non-white journalists (or aspiring
    journalists) are afflicted by racism too, in similar though not not necessarily identical
    ways that black journalists are.
  4. Subscriberkmax87
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    05 Nov '18 22:49
    I think journalism is just another boys club, where they don't have time to explain all of the rules. Hiring white means they have less risk in any cadet journalist talking truth to power, which by corporate association may inadvertently expose deep corrupt practices of a related corporate stablemate that if accurately reported on, would bite the very hand that is feeding said journalist.

    Rinse and repeat that hiring mantra for a couple of generations and the mediocrity amply displayed in journalism today may have more to do with the fact that the "white pool" of journalists provides a much larger pool of mediocrity to choose from, than whiteness and mediocrity being intrinsically linked.
  5. Joined
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    05 Nov '18 22:562 edits
    Say what you want about the press but CNN is a light on the hill as they report the truth, like talking about black Trump supporters being token negroes and white men being terrorists. It's the only news organization you can trust.
  6. Zugzwang
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    06 Nov '18 00:002 edits
    @kmax87 said
    I think journalism is just another boys club, where they don't have time to explain all of the rules. Hiring white means they have less risk in any cadet journalist talking truth to power, which by corporate association may inadvertently expose deep corrupt practices of a related corporate stablemate that if accurately reported on, would bite the very hand that is feeding sai ...[text shortened]... larger pool of mediocrity to choose from, than whiteness and mediocrity being intrinsically linked.
    Given that Kmax87 has amply shown his racism on other issues, is he arguing that racism
    has no influence on having white people overwhelmingly in control of Western media?

    I already am aware that most white people here prefer to cling to the racist stereotypes
    typically imposed by white journalists upon non-white people whom they (at best) fail to understand.

    I already suspect that many, if not most, white people would prefer to have only
    white people in charge of everything important in their world.
  7. Behind the scenes
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    06 Nov '18 02:24
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/28/media-diversity-neo-nazis-reporting

    "The media isn't diverse – and this leads to appalling reporting
    Our racially monolithic media is particularly ill equipped to cover
    an increasingly non-white world ..."

    "... journalism is clearly not based on meritocracy or neutrality.
    Rather, with journalism jobs going to w ...[text shortened]... s into believing
    they are the neutral point against which all other perspectives are a deviation."
    Rather, with journalism jobs going to white people 87% of the time in the US and a staggering 94% in Britain, journalism is practically a white-people-only club that will reward mediocre white journalists before it will advance excellent journalists of color who can bring needed perspectives.



    I wondered how long it would be before - once again - Duchess enriched our lives with another race baiting post, framing white people as villains. I guess not very long.

    🙄
  8. Joined
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    06 Nov '18 17:051 edit
    @Duchess64

    "And though we are often punished for interrogating our subjectivities, white men (like Mark Lilla, Jonathan Chait and Andrew Sullivan) are rewarded for pretending
    like theirs don’t exist – even as they shape our national narratives from their subjective point of view. [...] The myth of objectivity has deluded journalists who
    are white, male, straight, cisgender, able-bodied US citizens into believing
    they are the neutral point against which all other perspectives are a deviation."

    Not that I object really to the sentiment expressed here, but the way in which these two sentences follow hard on each other's heels could lead the reader to assume that Andrew Sullivan is straight, when in fact he is openly gay and was a longstanding campaigner for gay marriage. He has also explicitly discussed his HIV positive status. Though I think more minority representation in the press would be an excellent idea, perhaps the situation is a bit more complicated than the article suggests?
  9. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
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    06 Nov '18 18:121 edit
    @teinosuke said
    @Duchess64

    "And though we are often punished for interrogating our subjectivities, white men (like Mark Lilla, Jonathan Chait and Andrew Sullivan) are rewarded for pretending
    like theirs don’t exist – even as they shape our national narratives from their subjective point of view. [...] The myth of objectivity has deluded journalists who
    are white, male, straight, ci ...[text shortened]... uld be an excellent idea, perhaps the situation is a bit more complicated than the article suggests?
    A quick check on the Wikipedia page for the UK reveals that 87% of the population is white, 7% Asian, 3% black, 2% mixed race. So while there is underrepresentation it is 6% non-white when one would expect it to be 13%. While not ideal this is less stark than the language of the article suggests. I wonder what the ethnic breakdown of applicants is?

    Edit: also Asians have this thing about being self-employed, as I was told by an Asian co-worker, does the article writer's statistics include freelance journalists?
  10. Zugzwang
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    06 Nov '18 19:01
    @mchill said
    Rather, with journalism jobs going to white people 87% of the time in the US and a staggering 94% in Britain, journalism is practically a white-people-only club that will reward mediocre white journalists before it will advance excellent journalists of color who can bring needed perspectives.



    I wondered how long it would be before - once again - Duchess enriched our lives with another race baiting post, framing white people as villains. I guess not very long.

    🙄
    To the expected cheers of the almost all white (and largely racist) white readers here,
    the racist troll Mchill continues his perpetual defense of white racism.

    I cited THREE articles by Steven Thrasher, Jelani Cobb, and Howard French (apparently all black).
    Mchill and the many other racist trolls here presumably would denounce them for 'race-baiting'.
  11. Zugzwang
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    06 Nov '18 19:061 edit
    @teinosuke said
    @Duchess64

    "And though we are often punished for interrogating our subjectivities, white men (like Mark Lilla, Jonathan Chait and Andrew Sullivan) are rewarded for pretending
    like theirs don’t exist – even as they shape our national narratives from their subjective point of view. [...] The myth of objectivity has deluded journalists who
    are white, male, straight, ci ...[text shortened]... uld be an excellent idea, perhaps the situation is a bit more complicated than the article suggests?
    First of all, I cited THREE articles--not just one--by Steven Thrasher, Jelani Cobb,
    and Howard French (apparently all black). Mchill and the many other racist trolls
    here presumably would denounce them for 'race-baiting'.

    I suspect that the writer's point was that Andrew Sullivan, even as a gay man, was
    treated more favorably than he would have been if he were not white.

    I would add that being gay does NOT necessarily make one any more empathetic
    toward people afflicted by other forms of oppression. There are gay racists.
    Indeed, some prominent (real German) Nazis were gay. Likewise, there are black homophobes.
    Indeed, many conservative black Christians seem particularly homophobic.

    And being gay is not necessarily a VISIBLE disadvantage in seeking employment.
    But a non-white applicant would find it harder to conceal being non-white.
  12. Joined
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    06 Nov '18 19:12
    @deepthought said
    A quick check on the Wikipedia page for the UK reveals that 87% of the population is white, 7% Asian, 3% black, 2% mixed race. So while there is underrepresentation it is 6% non-white when one would expect it to be 13%. While not ideal this is less stark than the language of the article suggests. I wonder what the ethnic breakdown of applicants is?

    Edit: also Asians ...[text shortened]... was told by an Asian co-worker, does the article writer's statistics include freelance journalists?
    I was going to point this out. Britain cannot be compared to America without proportional adjustment. African-Americans make up more of a percentage of Americans than all non-white people do in Britain.
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    06 Nov '18 19:13
    @deepthought said
    A quick check on the Wikipedia page for the UK reveals that 87% of the population is white, 7% Asian, 3% black, 2% mixed race. So while there is underrepresentation it is 6% non-white when one would expect it to be 13%. While not ideal this is less stark than the language of the article suggests. I wonder what the ethnic breakdown of applicants is?

    Edit: also Asians ...[text shortened]... was told by an Asian co-worker, does the article writer's statistics include freelance journalists?
    "Asians have this thing about being self-employed."
    --DeepThought

    Just like Jews had 'this thing' about 'sticking together' (in ghettoes), right?

    Would these Asians be 'freelance journalists' by choice or because they were rejected
    by 'mainstream' (white-dominated) news employers?

    In the USA, there's a disproportionately high amount of Asian American entrepreneurial
    activity in the high technology sector. This is largely on account of Asian Americans
    expecting (from long experience) to encounter institutional racism denying them
    advancement to senior management in 'white' corporate America in that sector.

    In 2016, Carly Florina (a former CEO of Hewlett-Packard) claimed, in effect that Chinese
    scientists and engineers were incapable of original or creative thinking (a popular racist belief).
    That provoked some ethnic Chinese scientists or engineers at HP to denounce her
    for being ignorant of their original or creative contributions to her former corporation.
  14. Zugzwang
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    06 Nov '18 19:161 edit
    @ashiitaka said
    I was going to point this out. Britain cannot be compared to America without proportional adjustment. African-Americans make up more of a percentage of Americans than all non-white people do in Britain.
    I would have considered it obvious that the UK has a lower proportion of non-white minorities than the USA.
    I doubt that the African American writers (whom I cited) are attempting to argue
    that the UK's generally more racist than the USA.
  15. Zugzwang
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    06 Nov '18 19:18
    @teinosuke said
    @Duchess64

    "And though we are often punished for interrogating our subjectivities, white men (like Mark Lilla, Jonathan Chait and Andrew Sullivan) are rewarded for pretending
    like theirs don’t exist – even as they shape our national narratives from their subjective point of view. [...] The myth of objectivity has deluded journalists who
    are white, male, straight, ci ...[text shortened]... uld be an excellent idea, perhaps the situation is a bit more complicated than the article suggests?
    Steven Thrasher wrote the article cited in my original post.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Thrasher

    "He was the recipient of the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association
    Journalist of the Year award 2012."
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