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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    20 Jul '11 14:58
    Today is the 67th anniversary of the most famous attempt on Hitler's life; the attempt that inspired such mediocre movies as "Valkyrie," in which even the title of the movie is pronounced wrong.

    So, in honor of this event, for debate:

    Was Stauffenberg a moral hero whose attempt on Hitler was an idealistic attempt to prevent suffering or was Stauffenberg merely a Nazi criminal who was disillusioned not by Hitler's crimes but by the fact that he was losing the war?

    Or, of course, something in between?
  2. 20 Jul '11 16:20
    Either way his intentions were good.

    It is also the 189th birthday of Gregor Mendel, another hero of mine.
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    20 Jul '11 16:30
    Originally posted by sh76
    Today is the 67th anniversary of the most famous attempt on Hitler's life; the attempt that inspired such mediocre movies as "Valkyrie," in which even the title of the movie is pronounced wrong.

    So, in honor of this event, for debate:

    Was Stauffenberg a moral hero whose attempt on Hitler was an idealistic attempt to prevent suffering or was Stauffenberg m ...[text shortened]... s crimes but by the fact that he was losing the war?

    Or, of course, something in between?
    I don't how you would classify Stauffenberg a "Nazi criminal"; I'm unaware of him being involved in any atrocities. AFAIK, he was simply a soldier.

    With that caveat, I'm in the "he wanted Hitler dead because Germany was losing the war" camp.
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    20 Jul '11 16:33 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    ...was Stauffenberg merely a Nazi criminal who was disillusioned not by Hitler's crimes but by the fact that he was losing the war?
    Is it your contention that Stauffenberg was a member of the Nazi Party? I thought he was Wehrmacht.
  5. 20 Jul '11 16:46
    When Germany was winning and things looked good Stauffenberg had no problem with what they were doing.
    When he realized the war was lost he suddenly developed a conscience.

    Sorry, he was no hero.
  6. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    20 Jul '11 17:24
    The people in the White Rose movement were true heroes in my eyes. This guy's so so...

    Sophie Scholl was undoubtedly one of the greatest human beings in the 20th century.
  7. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    20 Jul '11 17:30
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    The people in the White Rose movement were true heroes in my eyes. This guy's so so...

    Sophie Scholl was undoubtedly one of the greatest human beings in the 20th century.
    Advocating nonviolent resistance to Nazis was incitement to useless suicide.

    Scholl was a damn fool.
  8. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    20 Jul '11 18:24
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Advocating nonviolent resistance to Nazis was incitement to useless suicide.

    Scholl was a damn fool.
    Taking into account the social climate that surrounded those young people and to know that they had the heart to stand up against of history's most horrible crimes knowing very well the kind of fate they would get, while most of the adults and intellectuals were busy condoning and supporting what was going on, is certainly brave and commendable.

    I won't sully these people legacy by engaging in the kind of discussion you're obviously salivating for.
  9. 20 Jul '11 18:49
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Advocating nonviolent resistance to Nazis was incitement to useless suicide.

    Scholl was a damn fool.
    Yeah all they did was leave some leaflets in the hallways of their school big whoop de do.
  10. 20 Jul '11 18:51
    Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
    Yeah all they did was leave some leaflets in the hallways of their school big whoop de do.
    "Sophie Scholl was undoubtedly one of the greatest human beings in the 20th century."-adam warlock
  11. 20 Jul '11 19:04
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    "Sophie Scholl was undoubtedly one of the greatest human beings in the 20th century."-adam warlock
    Well they all had their heads chopped off, which was a totally awesome way to be executed.
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    20 Jul '11 19:08
    Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
    Well they all had their heads chopped off, which was a totally awesome way to be executed.
    I've always thought being beheaded would be one of the more interesting ways to go. What would it be like in those last few seconds of being a disembodied head tumbling downward?
  13. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    20 Jul '11 19:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
    Yeah all they did was leave some leaflets in the hallways of their school big whoop de do.
    Who knows what actions leading to the betterment of humanity those leaflets might have inspired among those who read the leaflets? We will never know. But every revolution begins with a single idea that is at variance with an established order...
  14. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    20 Jul '11 19:16
    Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
    Well they all had their heads chopped off, which was a totally awesome way to be executed.
    For your pin-sized head the Nazis would have had to use a microtome.
  15. 20 Jul '11 19:17 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    Who knows what acts for the betterment of humanity those leaflets might have inspired among those who read the leaflets? We will never know. But every revolution begins with a single idea that is at variance with an established order...
    Who knows what acts they inspired?

    I think we do know....none.
    Nobody who read the pamphlets ever stepped up to the plate and did anything and later said it inspired them , or if they did they sure kept it a big secret.

    I mean COME ON, they tossed some leaflets around their school and they only did that like 5 or 6 times before getting caught.

    How many people actually read them? To pick one up and be caught with it was a dangerous thing. All they did was put everyone who ever picked one up at risk.