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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Sep '10 15:46
    Scenarios please. Broad brush stuff. Wholesale rather than retail.
  2. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    22 Sep '10 15:59
    Ron Paul must be already crying.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Sep '10 16:01
    Originally posted by FMF
    Scenarios please. Broad brush stuff. Wholesale rather than retail.
    They win some elections, storm into Washington and then slowly but surely get ensnared in the same behind the scenes machinations that everyone else in Washington gets involved in. The people slowly lose interest as they see nothing really changes over a few years.

    Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
  4. 22 Sep '10 16:14
    one scenario:

    the economy continues to do poorly for the next few years -- the Tea Party movement starts to expand beyond its conservative roots after the big GOP rout of 2010 and the glorious election of Sarah Palin in 2012 - but the continued economic slump creates a much broader-based populist movement that attracts large numbers centrist deficit-hawks, campaign finance reformers, and left-wing critics of free trade and big business monopolies. Unruly protests among the growing masses of the unemployed start to spontaneously break out, demanding the overthrow of entrenched politicians and CEOs alike.

    Ultimately, a new Populist Party forms that greatly frightens many of those who had originally funded the Tea Party movement in hopes of reviving the GOP. Not even Glenn Beck himself is able to control the monster he helped to create. Both the GOP and Dems struggle as this new party wins a significant number of seats in the 2014 midterms and then dominates the 2016 elections.
  5. 22 Sep '10 16:20 / 1 edit
    Palin or a Tea Party-endorsed Republican runs for the presidency 2012. Despite Obama's lacking popularity, moderate voters reluctantly side with Obama. The movement then peters out as several scandals about and/or embarassing gaffes by Tea Party prominents surface.

    Alternative scenario: the Tea Party endorses a moderate Republican. This candidate wins the 2012 election, after which the Tea Party gains momentum.
  6. 22 Sep '10 16:41
    Originally posted by sh76
    They win some elections, storm into Washington and then slowly but surely get ensnared in the same behind the scenes machinations that everyone else in Washington gets involved in. The people slowly lose interest as they see nothing really changes over a few years.

    Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
    http://www.democracynow.org/2010/9/22/chilean_economist_manfred_max_neef_us

    Yeah, I know, this guy is just one of those that can be ignored. The facts on the ground will not be. For 30 years (and more) the rich (and I don't mean corporations - I mean those who own corporations and control their agendas) have been systematically withdrawing their support from the US (and I mean here the people, not the institutions) because they felt entitled to the full use of their wealth without interference from those who they considered only parasites and wage-slaves. When the actual state of the country becomes clear and Detroit is no longer an aberration but a norm we will see how difficult it will be for them to survive. Where will they go? China? A Brazilian ranch? Only the overwhelming decent humanity of the mass of Americans will save them, if at all.

    Right now they are using a stick to poke the hornet's nest of disaffection (what the tea party is) because they calculate short-term gain. I am again reminded of Gottfried Benn and his succinct disposal of Nazism, "We are using our own skin for wallpaper and we cannot win." (And of course, he wasn't speaking metaphorically and neither am I.) When enough neighborhoods explode from the neglect of basic services, when enough bridges collapse under the weight of stupidity, when money ceases to represent work and only serves only as casino chips for confidence men, when the resources become too dear to justify the murder and environmental devastation necessary to extract them, we will enter a dark hallway from which there is no turning back, and we may well be resting our weary hopes against the cool walls that stretch into that darkness right now.

    In our present situation, any political solution presupposes the capability to appreciate a rational argument and the problem is not that the populace can't do that - the ruling class cannot.
  7. 22 Sep '10 16:42
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Palin or a Tea Party-endorsed Republican runs for the presidency 2012. Despite Obama's lacking popularity, moderate voters reluctantly side with Obama. The movement then peters out as several scandals about and/or embarassing gaffes by Tea Party prominents surface.

    Alternative scenario: the Tea Party endorses a moderate Republican. This candidate wins the 2012 election, after which the Tea Party gains momentum.
    your first scenario is what will probably happen if the economy recovers strongly within the next two years -- unless all of those unemployed people end up having to take jobs that pay only half as much as their old job paid....

    your alternative scenario will never happen -- unless sh76 can somehow persuade whodey that sh76's view of things is the correct view -- in that case, anything's possible.
  8. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    23 Sep '10 16:18
    The "Tea Party" is seemingly a scattershot temper tantrum on the part of people who largely don't really know what they want. They're like spoiled brats, many of 'em. They want all the good things in life -- smooth roads, sw<a>nky* bridges, teachers teaching for peanuts, a massive military, cheap food and even cheaper gas -- but they don't want to have to pay for them. A long insulated self-centeredness some have called "American exceptionalism" has collided head-on with hard times and harsh realities. Every tea-party type seems to want smaller government, but NOT when it comes to THEIR slice of gubbamint pie. Look at Alaska. They want the Feds out of their lives more than anyone, but per capita Alaskans are more hooked on the government dole than any other state. Without the Feds Alaska would be uninhabitable. It's the rank hypocrisy, blinkered selfishness, and phoney individualism that grates on me. They don't want any government-run health care and don't even want to be made to buy health insurance -- but just take ONE GUESS who will wind up paying their medical bills when they suddenly need that $200,000 organ transplant. Taxpayers, naturally. Phoney individualism, I say.



    *The goddamn nanny filter is trying to block the word "s w a n k y". Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick.
  9. 23 Sep '10 16:28
    dozens of ross perots. they're winning primaries but haven't got to the general election yet.

    the media's in the tank for the Democrats. try finding a mainstream media article favorable towards the tea partiers.
  10. 23 Sep '10 18:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    dozens of ross perots. they're winning primaries but haven't got to the general election yet.

    the media's in the tank for the Democrats. try finding a mainstream media article favorable towards the tea partiers.
    Say something favorable yourself about mice with human brains.

    I'll bet you can't even find a link that does so.
  11. 24 Sep '10 09:52
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    ... Without the Feds Alaska would be uninhabitable...

    With the Feds, places like Detroit ARE uninhabitable.
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    24 Sep '10 10:01
    Originally posted by TheBloop
    With the Feds, places like Detroit ARE uninhabitable.
    Isn't this one of Sam The Sham's broken records?
  13. 24 Sep '10 12:58
    Originally posted by TheBloop
    I totally agree. Free trade and tax breaks to encourage production to move out the country have nearly ruined the USA. For most of our history we did everything we could to favor the development of business IN the country. How stupid were we to believe that off-shoring production would benefit anyone other than the very richest investors? They created Detroit because they just don't give rat's behind about anything other than their profits. They have polluted the political system and raped the land and the remaining 98% of citizens are left with the bill.
  14. 24 Sep '10 13:05
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    dozens of ross perots. they're winning primaries but haven't got to the general election yet.

    the media's in the tank for the Democrats. try finding a mainstream media article favorable towards the tea partiers.
    isn't Fox News part of the mainstream media?
  15. 24 Sep '10 17:32
    Originally posted by sh76
    They win some elections, storm into Washington and then slowly but surely get ensnared in the same behind the scenes machinations that everyone else in Washington gets involved in. The people slowly lose interest as they see nothing really changes over a few years.

    Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
    The different thing about the movement is that it started without leaders. People will continue to fight with or without leaders to represent them. In fact, if those in the Tea Party go way of the moderate Rhinos they are simply thrown under the bus. All that matters are results, not party affiliations. For far too long the Republican party has been nothing more than a speed bump to statism. Now it it time to begin to reverse course for the first time. Make no mistake, this movement is NOT going atway. At worst they endorse Palin which gives the Tea Party a black eye. At best they find a charismatic leader like Reagan and sweep the moderates and leftists under the rug for a very long time.