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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    26 Oct '09 16:31
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/Conservatives-Maintain-Edge-Top-Ideological-Group.aspx

    The numbers speak for themselves.

    Reports of the death of conservative ideology are greatly exaggerated.
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    26 Oct '09 16:43
    Originally posted by sh76
    The numbers speak for themselves.
    Yes. They quite clearly say that a solid majority of Americans are left-of-Conservative.
  3. 26 Oct '09 16:44
    Hmm, it seems that there is a slight trend towards more polarization... there are even more people who call themselves "liberal" than under the successful Clinton administration.
  4. 26 Oct '09 17:30
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/Conservatives-Maintain-Edge-Top-Ideological-Group.aspx

    The numbers speak for themselves.

    Reports of the death of conservative ideology are greatly exaggerated.
    so where's the debate?
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    26 Oct '09 17:53
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    so where's the debate?
    A few people on this board, have speculated over the past few months that "conservative" ideology is in decline and that it is becoming the new "liberal" in terms of the stigma attached among the American people.

    The debate is whether these poll numbers refute that speculation.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    26 Oct '09 17:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Yes. They quite clearly say that a solid majority of Americans are left-of-Conservative.
    Yes, "moderates" plus "liberals" outnumber "conservatives." I believe that it has always been that way, or at least mostly been that way.

    However, the point is that those numbers have not changed much even in the wake of the unsuccessful Bush Presidency and in the wake of the rise of the Democratic party and President Obama.

    My thesis is and has been than the ascendancy of the Democratic party has had more to do with the bungling of the Bush administration and the scandal plagued incompetence of the GOP than with any fundamental change in attitude or political outlook by the American people. I believe these poll numbers help support that thesis.
  7. 26 Oct '09 18:13
    Originally posted by sh76
    Yes, "moderates" plus "liberals" outnumber "conservatives." I believe that it has always been that way, or at least mostly been that way.

    However, the point is that those numbers have not changed much even in the wake of the unsuccessful Bush Presidency and in the wake of the rise of the Democratic party and President Obama.

    My thesis is and has been than ...[text shortened]... cal outlook by the American people. I believe these poll numbers help support that thesis.
    I don't think you're completely wrong - I definitely think Bush was the best thing to happen to the democratic party.

    Part of the problem is with self-association of labels though and the common perception of what people see as being those labels. I've spoken to "conservatives" who are in favor of "liberal" policies, for example. The question is how these labels translate into policies.
  8. 26 Oct '09 18:13
    Originally posted by sh76
    A few people on this board, have speculated over the past few months that "conservative" ideology is in decline and that it is becoming the new "liberal" in terms of the stigma attached among the American people.

    The debate is whether these poll numbers refute that speculation.
    those people are usually morons, you shouldn't pay attention to what they say.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    26 Oct '09 18:19
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    I don't think you're completely wrong - I definitely think Bush was the best thing to happen to the democratic party.

    Part of the problem is with self-association of labels though and the common perception of what people see as being those labels. I've spoken to "conservatives" who are in favor of "liberal" policies, for example. The question is how these labels translate into policies.
    Good point.

    I think a fairly drafted version of the political compass test would be a better evaluation of political leanings.
  10. 26 Oct '09 18:21 / 1 edit
    I think the old 1960's-based versions of liberalism and conservatism are both in decline.
  11. 26 Oct '09 18:48
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    I think the old 1960's-based versions of liberalism and conservatism are both in decline.
    why would that be?
  12. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    26 Oct '09 18:57
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/Conservatives-Maintain-Edge-Top-Ideological-Group.aspx

    The numbers speak for themselves.

    Reports of the death of conservative ideology are greatly exaggerated.
    Sorry, but that's wishful thinking on your part. George W Bush spelled the end of this center-right myth. The elections of 2006 and 2008 were pretty convincing proof of this.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    26 Oct '09 20:00
    Originally posted by bill718
    Sorry, but that's wishful thinking on your part. George W Bush spelled the end of this center-right myth. The elections of 2006 and 2008 were pretty convincing proof of this.
    I think we're going to lose Congress dramatically in 2010. Obama is awesome, but the Dems in Congress and working for Obama are generally really obnoxious jackasses from what I've seen.
  14. Standard member telerion
    True X X Xian
    26 Oct '09 20:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    I think we're going to lose Congress dramatically in 2010. Obama is awesome, but the Dems in Congress and working for Obama are generally really obnoxious jackasses from what I've seen.
    I agree with your prediction that the dems will lose seats in the midterm for two reasons.
    First, after years of gerrymandering it's just very hard to maintain such a sizeable majority.
    Two, with the Bush admin and many of the Republican congressional leadership far behind the anti-Bush vote will be weaker. Also unlike with the 08 seats, Obama doesn't have quite as much draw among independents anymore.

    I do not see disaster for them though, just modest loses. Likely remain the majority in both houses.
    My prediction will change dramatically though if the dems still don't have some sort of healthcare plan done. You've got to give the populace time to realize that the sky is still above their heads after a big peice of legislation.
  15. 26 Oct '09 20:40
    Originally posted by telerion
    I agree with your prediction that the dems will lose seats in the midterm for two reasons.
    First, after years of gerrymandering it's just very hard to maintain such a sizeable majority.
    Two, with the Bush admin and many of the Republican congressional leadership far behind the anti-Bush vote will be weaker. Also unlike with the 08 seats, Obama doesn't ha ...[text shortened]... ce time to realize that the sky is still above their heads after a big peice of legislation.
    Yes I agree, they have to pass the health care reform soon and it needs to be good.