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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    29 Jul '14 09:18
    Sheikh Ahmed Aladoan of Amman, a member of Jordan’s well-known
    Adwan tribe, posted to Facebook this week that there is no such place as
    “Palestine,” and provided references from the Koran to back up his
    assertion.



    One of the Koranic verses provided states that Allah gave the Holy Land to
    the sons of Israel until the Day of Judgment (Surah Al-Ma’ida, verse 21),
    and the other (Surah Al-Shara’a, verse 59) says that the land was
    bequeathed to the Jews.

    The sheikh turned to those who “distort the words of the Koran,” whom he
    labeled as liars, and questioned where they had even come up with the
    name “Palestine.” He insisted their claims to the Land of Israel were forfeit
    because “Allah is the protector of the Children of Israel.”

    And if that wasn’t enough, the sheikh went on to turn the tables on the
    anti-Israel propaganda machine by accusing the Palestinians of killing
    children, the elderly and women, of using human shields, and of having not
    an ounce of mercy for even their own children.

    The sheikh’s words caused a storm in the Arab media, and were picked up
    by the Israeli Embassy in Amman.

    The Arabic daily Al-Quds Al-Arabi further explained the sheikh’s position,
    noting that he supports the notion that Jordan is Palestine, and insists that
    Arabs living both in Jordan and the Palestinian Authority-controlled
    territories would almost all love to be Israeli citizens.

    The Adwan tribe issued a statement distancing itself from Sheikh Aladoan’s
    remarks. But the sheikh was not intimidated, and insisted he would continue
    to make his voice heard on these matters.

    Last year, Sheikh Aladoan visited Israel and spent time with the chief rabbi
    of Tsfat (Safed), Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu. The sheikh informed Rabbi Eliyahu
    and his students that in the Koran, “there is no name ‘Palestine’ for this
    land, and therefore, the Arabs should not be fighting.


    http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/02/20/jordanian-sheikh-israel-belongs-to-the-jews/
  2. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    29 Jul '14 10:38
    Yeah... suddenly you find the Koran a source of reliable information???
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    29 Jul '14 11:33
    Perhaps when Seitse demonstrates an ability to deal intelligently with the serious arguments on this topic we can, for a break, turn our amused attention to the more fringe and strange aspects of his view on life, apparently justifying the mass murder of Palestinians in Gaza by a modern army funded and equipped by the USA. When it gets to the point where a fruitcake interpretation of religious scripture is presented in the face of the systematic bombing and shelling of one of the most densely populated territories on Earth, perhaps it has also reached the point where Seitse really has run out of coherent comment.
  4. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    29 Jul '14 12:39
    I'll start when I hear your hatred dissipate and see some
    condemnation of the 170,000 casualties in Syria, which, unlike
    the 1,000 casualties in Gaza today, are not arising from a
    legitimate defensive right by a nation.
  5. 29 Jul '14 12:54
    Territorial divisions of Earth are, by their nature, arbitrary.
  6. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    29 Jul '14 13:16
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Territorial divisions of Earth are, by their nature, arbitrary.
    You've never lived on an island.
  7. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    29 Jul '14 14:27
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    You've never lived on an island.
    One like Britain say? Plenty of islands have borders.
  8. 29 Jul '14 14:29
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    You've never lived on an island.
    Actually, I have.

    There are plenty of islands which house multiple nation states, and plenty of nation states encompassing multiple islands. From a military viewpoint, an island is relatively easy to defend, so it is no surprise that political borders sometimes correspond to geographical ones.
  9. 29 Jul '14 15:18
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    You've never lived on an island.
    Fishing rights etc. have territorial boundaries.
  10. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    29 Jul '14 15:34
    Originally posted by Seitse
    I'll start when I hear your hatred dissipate and see some
    condemnation of the 170,000 casualties in Syria, which, unlike
    the 1,000 casualties in Gaza today, are not arising from a
    legitimate defensive right by a nation.
    I strongly condemn the 170,000 casualties in Syria.

    Now you start.

    The idea that my comments on this forum shape your's and that on some level you are holding back from contributing anything intelligent pending a change in my attitude to your posts is quite sweet.The tough guy with the macho helicopter video links turns out to be a sensitive soul who needs my approval and wilts under my disapproval. I must learn to be more considerate...
  11. 29 Jul '14 20:49
    there is a palestine as long as a group of people are willing to fight for it. kill and die for it.

    simple.

    nothing else matters. and the opinion of some random dude interpreting in one of the hundreds of ways a religious text matters the least
  12. 29 Jul '14 21:13
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    there is a palestine as long as a group of people are willing to fight for it. kill and die for it.

    simple.

    nothing else matters. and the opinion of some random dude interpreting in one of the hundreds of ways a religious text matters the least
    Seitse already has denied the existence of the Palestinians as a people.

    A 'virtual' Palestine (preserving Palestinian memories) exists in cyberspace
    at various websites. Even though Israel keeps building Jewish settlements,
    'creating facts on the ground' (as Israel likes to call it), and doing its utmost
    to erase all traces of its earlier Palestinian presence, some Palestinians have
    turned to the internet to keep alive their memories, history, and culture.

    The late Edward Said (a famous Palestinian scholar, writer, and activist)
    once said that he was motivated to keep fighting so long against a disease
    (which eventually claimed his life) because he knew that so many fanatical
    supporters of Israel wanted to see him dead.
  13. 29 Jul '14 23:47
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Perhaps when Seitse demonstrates an ability to deal intelligently with the serious arguments on this topic we can, for a break, turn our amused attention to the more fringe and strange aspects of his view on life, apparently justifying the mass murder of Palestinians in Gaza by a modern army funded and equipped by the USA. When it gets to the point where a ...[text shortened]... arth, perhaps it has also reached the point where Seitse really has run out of coherent comment.
    If I took a position a half mile from your home and began randomly firing 7.62x39 ammo at it from a distance of a half mile (accuracy and effect hard to predict at that distance with that cartridge), would you hesitate for a moment to enlist the aid of as many cops as possible to stop me with deadly force? Would you repent if the cops killed me?
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Jul '14 00:23 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by normbenign
    If I took a position a half mile from your home and began randomly firing 7.62x39 ammo at it from a distance of a half mile (accuracy and effect hard to predict at that distance with that cartridge), would you hesitate for a moment to enlist the aid of as many cops as possible to stop me with deadly force? Would you repent if the cops killed me?
    Israel's actions in Gaza are neither justified nor motivated by rocket attacks. Read earlier material. It is tedious to keep repeating this. 1. The order of events is reversed. 2. The response is vastly disproportionate and there are alternative ways to get to grips with them. 3. This amounts to collective punishment of the whole Palestinian community which is a crime. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/26/gaza-destruction-photos_n_5623908.html

    When you have such immense and disproportionate power at your disposal, you also have to carry the responsibility that goes with it. The IDF has a duty to the people of Gaza and that is not being respected.
  15. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    30 Jul '14 05:49
    Originally posted by normbenign
    If I took a position a half mile from your home and began randomly firing 7.62x39 ammo at it from a distance of a half mile (accuracy and effect hard to predict at that distance with that cartridge), would you hesitate for a moment to enlist the aid of as many cops as possible to stop me with deadly force? Would you repent if the cops killed me?
    What if my home was actually yours until my army forcably removed you from it? Stuck you in a refugee camp...

    Does that change anything?