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  1. 27 Feb '17 02:25
    http://www.salon.com/2017/02/14/time-is-running-out-on-american-democracy-historian-says_partner/

    "Time is running out on American democracy, historian says
    We may have a year or less, and it has happened to countries like us before, says a Yale professor"

    "Timothy Snyder, a Yale scholar and an authority on European
    political history, has spent decades studying the rise of fascist
    movements. With the ascension of Donald Trump to the U.S.
    presidency, Snyder sees echoes from history, and warns that the time
    to save America from autocracy is in short supply:"

    "...Americans must dispense with wishful thinking about institutions
    helping to curb Trump’s power. In fact, that misguided notion is
    precisely what landed us in this situation.
    “The story that Americans have told themselves from the moment he
    declared his candidacy for president, was that one institution or
    another would defeat him or at least change his behavior—he won’t
    get the nomination; if he gets the nomination, he will be a normal
    Republican; he will get defeated in the general election; if he wins, the
    presidency will mature him (that was what Obama said),” Snyder
    recounts. “I never thought any of that was true. He doesn’t seem to
    care about the institutions and the laws except insofar as they appear
    as barriers to the goal of permanent kleptocratic authoritarianism and
    immediate personal gratification. It is all about him all of time, it is not
    about the citizens and our political traditions.”
    In the days after the election, Snyder penned a must-read Slate
    article that recalled historical markers from Hitler’s rise to reveal the
    similar path of Trump’s advance."

    "...Most Americans are exceptionalists; we think we live outside of
    history. Americans tend to think: ‘We have freedom because we love
    freedom, we love freedom because we are free.’ It is a bit circular and
    doesn’t acknowledge the historical structures that can favor or
    weaken democratic republics. We don’t realize how similar our
    predicaments are to those of other people.” "

    "Snyder urges immediate resistance to the administration’s targeting
    of Muslims, immigrants, blacks and LGBT people, because if it can
    “slice off one group, it can do the same to others.” He says protest
    and pushback should continue with regularity."

    "The only way to stop is to not obey, Snyder reiterates."
  2. 27 Feb '17 02:29
    http://www.salon.com/2017/02/26/robert-reich-a-boycott-is-in-order-we-need-to-make-it-unprofitable-to-work-with-trump_partner/

    "Robert Reich: A boycott is in order — we need to make it unprofitable to work with Trump:
    It's not enough to be political activists — we need to be consumer activists at the same time."

    "Keep the pressure on. Let’s make it unprofitable to work with Trump. Boycott Trump.
    Reject companies that do business with Trump. Boycott companies whose CEOs collaborate with Trump."
  3. Subscriber karoly aczel
    Fortnite Kid
    27 Feb '17 04:11
    In defence of Obama from where I am it seemed he did the best he could. Heck he won the presidency. That was his greatest achievement- he was never going to do anything else that will be remembered.

    As for Trump He is what the the U.S. and the world needs. Hopefully he stirs people into action.
  4. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    27 Feb '17 04:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    As for Trump He is what the the U.S. and the world needs...
    What do you think it is that Trump offers that the world needs?
  5. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    27 Feb '17 07:46
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What do you think it is that Trump offers that the world needs?
    You don't see it?

    Do you seriously think I'm joking when I say I'm glad he's the US president and supported him on these very forums in the run up?

    The world is turning nastier than it has been for a long time. Immigrants are being blamed for complicated financial problems, banning head scarves is seriously being discussed when the problem is jobs, people in Europe are looking (once again) at minorities to blame for their fears...

    What the world needs is a bad guy. A central point of crazy-Hollywood-esque badness to rally against.

    Putin wasn't enough. The man deserves bad-guy credit, but he's just not over the top enough in our modern, fast-paced world.

    The world needs Trump.
    Sure it sucks for the Americans. But hey, they're just collatoral damage in the larger battle for a better world.
  6. 27 Feb '17 08:33
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    You don't see it?

    Do you seriously think I'm joking when I say I'm glad he's the US president and supported him on these very forums in the run up?

    The world is turning nastier than it has been for a long time. Immigrants are being blamed for complicated financial problems, banning head scarves is seriously being discussed when the problem is jobs, p ...[text shortened]... the Americans. But hey, they're just collatoral damage in the larger battle for a better world.
    There are no jobs in europe because there is no growth, and there is no growth because of the euro. (Except in Germany, who controls the European Central Bank)

    While the end goal is European integration, the EU has strayed too far from economics in its quest for political integration. We must take a few steps back and correct those economic errors before advancing again.
  7. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    27 Feb '17 10:08
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    There are no jobs in europe because there is no growth, and there is no growth because of the euro. (Except in Germany, who controls the European Central Bank)

    While the end goal is European integration, the EU has strayed too far from economics in its quest for political integration. We must take a few steps back and correct those economic errors before advancing again.
    See... there are plenty of jobs in Europe. We have very little poverty. We have very safe inner-cities and most of countries have high education standards and good healthcare coverage.

    Capitalism has created job insecurity (bosses want to fire people more easily; people get temporary contracts). This creates fear (we Europeans like stability).
    It's cheaper to hire workers from other countries. This creates fear.

    And we have politicians playing up these fears to the tune of poverty (which is a comparison, and since the gap between rich and poor is growing, it looks like we're getting poorer)...

    And I've said it umpteen times on this forum: you don't want to mix Europeans, fear and poverty... it's like feeding gremlins after midnight.

    It's not for nothing Europe wants a European union. We want peace. We want stability. And that mad hatter laissez capitalism will fail utterly in our part of the world.

    Capitalism creates friction and the more laissez faire it is, the more friction. And that's just throwing the European gremlin into the olympic swimming pool.

    Why do you think europeans West of Poland don't really worry about Russia?

    A simple truth: Russia has its satellite states it believes it has a right to. They'll never expand beyond that.
    They'll never attempt to expand into Western Europe.. they don't want to feed the gremlin.

    Believe me.
    We're the nicest peoplenon Earth. The most enlightened. But we're also the most violently minded bastards you'll ever have the misfortune to meet.

    Many shades of grey and none of them have anything to do with a real lack of jobs.
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    27 Feb '17 10:14 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    There are no jobs in europe because there is no growth, and there is no growth because of the euro. (Except in Germany, who controls the European Central Bank)

    While the end goal is European integration, the EU has strayed too far from economics in its quest for political integration. We must take a few steps back and correct those economic errors before advancing again.
    Getting different though related issues mixed up is a recipe for going nowhere slowly.

    The single currency, the Euro, is inherently risky and I go with Melvyn King, formerly Governor of the Bank of England, when he says it will fail. Meanwhile this is a comment on the sustainability of German led policies for the Euro: https://www.socialeurope.eu/2017/02/stubborn-germans-no-change-positions-can-expected-greek-case-eurozone-reform/

    The fact is that the UK is not part of the single currency and the ideology of austerity is being used here to permit the blatant dismantling of our welfare state, sucking life out of the real economy and introducing a new era of plutocracy and staggering inequality.

    Bexit is part of an ideological movement, with powerful sponsors in the financial sector and in the US right-wing think tanks, notably the Heritage Centre. It is part of the strategy to dismantle democratic institutions and substitute fascism. With Brexit, the UK is being absored into the American camp, betraying our national interest to benefit the wealthy. The UK is in danger of immense harm through Brexit, including the disintegration of the union. In all this mess human rights are explicitly under attack, with the full fascist programme of destroying worker protection, attacking the unemployed, vilifying the disabled and the elderly (what Nazis called useless feeders), tearing apart families of mixed nationality (already in full flow through the fascistic Border Control Agency), wrecking the legal system, pulling down the health service for ordinary people, ... Not one item on that llist is difficult to demonstrate if questioned.

    The EU without Britain is fast becoming the major pillar of democracy standing up to American fascism. It is a flawed democracy and has yet to decide where it stands, with powerful right wing movements swirling through the continent. As Corbyn has argued, Europe is flawed and in need of reform but we still need democratic alliances across national borders to protect our values against the power of global corporations and their ideological apparatus.
  9. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    27 Feb '17 10:31 / 2 edits
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/26/grandmother-deported-from-uk-despite-being-married-to-briton-for-27-years

    A woman living in the UK who has been married to a British man for 27 years has been forcibly removed from the country....

    Clennell first arrived in London in 1988 and married John, a British man, two years later. They settled in County Durham and had two children together. She now has one grandchild.

    Her sister-in-law Angela confirmed Clennell had been deported. She said she had been subject to “insensitive and unfair government rules” and that Irene’s husband, her brother, was seriously ill.

    She told the Guardian: “It’s outrageous what has happened today. I’m appalled by it especially doing it on a Sunday so you can’t contact anyone to try and stop it happening.

    “I made numerous phone calls to immigration solicitors and everywhere was closed. I feel sick about the whole situation.”
    ...
    “They just came to get me this morning and said they’ve already given me a chance. Now I’m on the plane. Four people are taking me to Singapore. I don’t know what I’ll do when I land. I called my sister [in Singapore] and she said she can’t put me up, so I just don’t know.”

    Her husband told the website that he had no idea the deportation was going to happen despite having visited her on Friday.

    He said: “I think it was done deliberately so we couldn’t contact a solicitor or go through the courts. I think it’s trickery to come on a Sunday when you can’t contact your lawyer ... I need people to see what these people have done.”


    This is a country where officials can take you away in the night and deprive you of any legal support or advice, leaving your children and sick husband behind, and throw you into a plane to a distant city without money or support.

    Today it is Clennell. Find a label to make her unpopular and demonise her, an ordinary woman caring only for her family and living a decent life.

    A year or so back it was disabled people being demonised (incredibly - yet it was not stopped -it still goes on).

    Tomorrow it is who?

    Either human rights and legal process are fundamental or they are not. In Britain under the Tories, they are not.
  10. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    27 Feb '17 11:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Getting different though related issues mixed up is a recipe for going nowhere slowly.

    The single currency, the Euro, is inherently risky and I go with Melvyn King, formerly Governor of the Bank of England, when he says it will fail. Meanwhile this is a comment on the sustainability of German led policies for the Euro: https://www.socialeurope.eu/2017 ...[text shortened]... to protect our values against the power of global corporations and their ideological apparatus.
    I guess Russia learned a big lesson from WW2, where Nazi Germany attacked them. The Russians were very lucky in that the stupid leader, Hitler, told the army to attack despite winter conditions. If it had been summer, Moscow might have been forced to learn German and be nice Nazi's.

    I think as a result of that, a pipsqueak country like Germany was capable of actually defeating Russia even though the Nazi's lost I think it was mainly due to bad weather not a poor army.

    I don't think Russia wants more of that, especially since it would be facing not just Germany but all of Euro if it came to all out war. They still are going after their old holdings though and not much anyone can do about it.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    27 Feb '17 12:26
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I guess Russia learned a big lesson from WW2, where Nazi Germany attacked them. The Russians were very lucky in that the stupid leader, Hitler, told the army to attack despite winter conditions. If it had been summer, Moscow might have been forced to learn German and be nice Nazi's.

    I think as a result of that, a pipsqueak country like Germany was capab ...[text shortened]... t war. They still are going after their old holdings though and not much anyone can do about it.
    The war with Hitler was defensive for the Russians. They are vulnerable to another attack if the US continues its irrational warmongering along Russia's borders. Meanwhile Americans show no grip whatever on the nature of politics in that region, relying on outmoded cold war thinking which is frankly puerile, incluidng the dangerous illusion that the USA somehow "won" the cold war and can now dictate to the globe.
  12. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    27 Feb '17 13:02
    Originally posted by finnegan
    The war with Hitler was defensive for the Russians. They are vulnerable to another attack if the US continues its irrational warmongering along Russia's borders. Meanwhile Americans show no grip whatever on the nature of politics in that region, relying on outmoded cold war thinking which is frankly puerile, incluidng the dangerous illusion that the USA somehow "won" the cold war and can now dictate to the globe.
    That seems less likely under Trump. A war with China is the bigger risk.
  13. 27 Feb '17 13:02 / 8 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.salon.com/2017/02/14/time-is-running-out-on-american-democracy-historian-says_partner/

    "Time is running out on American democracy, historian says
    We may have a year or less, and it has happened to countries like us before, says a Yale professor"

    "Timothy Snyder, a Yale scholar and an authority on European
    political history, has spent d ...[text shortened]... k should continue with regularity."

    "The only way to stop is to not obey, Snyder reiterates."
    Blind, deaf, and dumb.

    That pretty much describes a Prog. They sit back in full control and create a world where Donald Trump comes to power and then blame him. It is the inability to admit to their own failures that makes them so precious.

    Hilarious.

    Well all I can say is do your level best to destroy the economy. Anything to destroy the country should help the Dims get back in control which will probably ignite an even worse GOP candidate than Trump to gain control once again

    As Ben Franklin aptly pointed out, "In these sentiments sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, if they are such: because I think a general government necessary for us, and there is no form of government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in despotism as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need a despotic government, being incapable of any other."

    Progs think that morality is stupid. Only redistributing wealth matters. Well guess what spanky, morality is EXACTLY all that is holding freedom together, for those who are free must be able to govern themselves, otherwise, it must be done for them.

    Are Americans so evil now that they need a federal government to pass around 40,000 new laws and regulations every year? Perhaps.
  14. 27 Feb '17 16:03
    Originally posted by whodey
    Blind, deaf, and dumb.

    That pretty much describes a Prog. They sit back in full control and create a world where Donald Trump comes to power and then blame him. It is the inability to admit to their own failures that makes them so precious.

    Hilarious.

    Well all I can say is do your level best to destroy the economy. Anything to destroy the country ...[text shortened]... y need a federal government to pass around 40,000 new laws and regulations every year? Perhaps.
    Thanks, whodey. That completes my whodey platitude Bingo card for this week.
  15. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    27 Feb '17 17:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.salon.com/2017/02/14/time-is-running-out-on-american-democracy-historian-says_partner/

    "Time is running out on American democracy, historian says
    We may have a year or less, and it has happened to countries like us before, says a Yale professor"

    "Timothy Snyder, a Yale scholar and an authority on European
    political history, has spent d ...[text shortened]... k should continue with regularity."

    "The only way to stop is to not obey, Snyder reiterates."
    Snyder penned a must-read Slate article that recalled historical markers from Hitler’s rise to reveal the similar path of Trump’s advance."



    Similar perhaps, but there are several differences as well. Donald Trump is not using brown shirted storm troopers to bully people and destroy their property, America has more checks and balances to curb the power of the President than 1930's Germany, the Trump administration seems to have no plans to invade other countries, and unlike Hitler, Trump is assuming power at a time of moderate economic prosperity. I agree that Trump has said a number of highly questionable things, and he was never my choice for President, but think it's far too early to give up on America's governmental institutions' ability to properly control Mr. Trump