Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 21:56
    “Dangling incentives before men and women behind bars to risk their lives is problematic, of course. But even more disheartening is that an incarcerated person’s firefighting experience will have precisely zero utility once they’re released. That’s because California law bars those with a criminal record from becoming licensed emergency responders.

    California is hardly the only state that bars the formerly incarcerated from many good jobs. According to an American Bar Association inventory, states have imposed at least 27,254 licensing restrictions on those with a criminal record.

    Nearly one in three adults has a record in the criminal justice system. And more than 25 percent of workers need a state license to practice their occupations. While prisons introduce training programs in professions ranging from cosmetology to carpentry to training service dogs, many of those people won’t be able to find jobs in their chosen professions after release.

    These so-called “blanket bans” on formerly incarcerated people are especially counterproductive because they bar them from deploying the expertise they accumulate while incarcerated. Gainful employment is one of the best tools to fight recidivism, and barring the formerly incarcerated from many jobs makes achieving productive employment more difficult.”

    http://www.brennancenter.org/blog/prison-inmates-fighting-californias-wildfires-cant-do-it-once-theyre-released
  2. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    iEn guardia, Ingles!
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    28 Aug '18 22:38
    Felons cannot vote either which is one way that The Man keeps The People Down
  3. SubscriberWajoma
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    28 Aug '18 22:441 edit
    Licensing is when goobermint arbitrarily takes away the people’s rights to choose perfectly natural and reasonable activities, then sells them back with strings attached.
  4. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 23:241 edit
    I would hope that improvements can be made without demanding that society and its institutions be overthrown, because that way of doing it will find less support.
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    28 Aug '18 23:33
    Originally posted by @js357
    “Dangling incentives before men and women behind bars to risk their lives is problematic, of course. But even more disheartening is that an incarcerated person’s firefighting experience will have precisely zero utility once they’re released. That’s because California law bars those with a criminal record from becoming licensed emergency responders.

    Califor ...[text shortened]... nancenter.org/blog/prison-inmates-fighting-californias-wildfires-cant-do-it-once-theyre-released
    As long as the private prison corporations get more money per prisoner, then laws will be made to increase the number of incarcerated. Remove the profit mandate and these prisons will become more fair to those inside, as well as make actual rehabilitation more likely.
  6. Joined
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    29 Aug '18 00:02
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    As long as the private prison corporations get more money per prisoner, then laws will be made to increase the number of incarcerated. Remove the profit mandate and these prisons will become more fair to those inside, as well as make actual rehabilitation more likely.
    why should a prison "be fair" to those inside?
  7. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    29 Aug '18 00:15
    If only we can grant voting rights to illegal aliens and incarcerated drug dealers, sex traffickers, rapists, thieves and murderers... the democrat party will have a permanent lock on all future elections.
  8. Joined
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    29 Aug '18 01:091 edit
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    As long as the private prison corporations get more money per prisoner, then laws will be made to increase the number of incarcerated. Remove the profit mandate and these prisons will become more fair to those inside, as well as make actual rehabilitation more likely.
    “laws will be made to increase the number of incarcerated”

    One way of reducing this effect is to award contracts based on the number of beds made available, not on the number filled. The contractor will then be indifferent to, if not somewhat favorable toward, lower prisoner populations.
  9. Joined
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    29 Aug '18 05:191 edit
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    why should a prison "be fair" to those inside?
    I being "fair" is a little too squishy and in need of justification for you, Maybe treating the inmates in accordance with applicable law will do, as a standard of care. Is that in need of justification?
  10. Standard membershavixmir
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    29 Aug '18 08:47
    Many ‘criminals’ in prison didn’t do anything more than use some drugs, make a bad choice or steal food.

    Prison is society’s way of protecting itself. We should treat everyone with respect.

    If you’re a pyromaniac (you shouldn’t be in prison for starter, but ah well), then it’s logical you can’t join the fire service.
    If you were locked up for stealing cars when you were 18... what the hell’s that got to do with fighting fires?
  11. Standard memberLundos
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    29 Aug '18 09:45
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Many ‘criminals’ in prison didn’t do anything more than use some drugs, make a bad choice or steal food.

    Prison is society’s way of protecting itself. We should treat everyone with respect.

    If you’re a pyromaniac (you shouldn’t be in prison for starter, but ah well), then it’s logical you can’t join the fire service.
    If you were locked up for stealing cars when you were 18... what the hell’s that got to do with fighting fires?
    You have to be 'tough on crime' to be a good republican.
  12. Joined
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    29 Aug '18 11:20
    Originally posted by @js357
    I being "fair" is a little too squishy and in need of justification for you, Maybe treating the inmates in accordance with applicable law will do, as a standard of care. Is that in need of justification?
    I suppose you have a case of an inmate not being treated according to law, or just what is your point?
  13. Joined
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    29 Aug '18 11:21
    Originally posted by @lundos
    You have to be 'tough on crime' to be a good republican.
    You have to be on the side of criminals to be a democrat.
  14. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    29 Aug '18 11:50
    Nearly one in three adults has a record in the criminal justice system. And more than 25 percent of workers need a state license to practice their occupations. While prisons introduce training programs in professions ranging from cosmetology to carpentry to training service dogs, many of those people won’t be able to find jobs in their chosen professions after release.


    This has to be some gross exaggeration. Like, perhaps one in three persons has a record because they have some kind of traffic violation that was remotely noteworthy.

    We are also talking about America where you can literally also have a record on file because you were once a witness to something.

    I live in a country now where you can manage to not have a record after you punch the daylights out of someone and they agreed to accept a few million won from you.
  15. Joined
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    29 Aug '18 15:171 edit
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    I suppose you have a case of an inmate not being treated according to law, or just what is your point?
    My point is actually more to get our claims to be verifiable. Being "fair" is too swuishy because it is arguable, whereas being a law violation would be more verifiable from court records. You are too suspicious of me, my point is more on your side in that the claim of unfairness is harder to agree on.
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