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Debates Forum

  1. 28 Feb '17 15:25
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N98_WKKQg0Y&t=37

    "Now I have to tell you, an unbelievably complex subject, nobody knew that healthcare could be so complicated "

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUQ3lwoLiRw
  2. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    28 Feb '17 15:53
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N98_WKKQg0Y&t=37

    "Now I have to tell you, an unbelievably complex subject, nobody knew that healthcare could be so complicated "

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUQ3lwoLiRw
    Hahahaha

    Are you worried yet, Americans?
  3. 28 Feb '17 16:14
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Hahahaha

    Are you worried yet, Americans?
    pretty much like the British and their brexit, they are coming to realize the concrete consequences of their actions.

    "wait, you mean obamacare and ACA are the same things"?
  4. 28 Feb '17 16:15
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Hahahaha

    Are you worried yet, Americans?
    pretty much like the British and their brexit, they are coming to realize the full consequences of their actions.

    "wait, you mean obamacare and ACA are the same things"?
  5. 28 Feb '17 16:23
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    pretty much like the British and their brexit, they are coming to realize the full consequences of their actions.

    "wait, you mean obamacare and ACA are the same things"?
    What consequences? What realization?
  6. 28 Feb '17 17:11
    It's great how Trump thinks: "I don't understand X, therefore no one understands X." Very good brain.
  7. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    28 Feb '17 18:35
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    What consequences? What realization?
    That England's screwed.
  8. 28 Feb '17 19:04
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    That England's screwed.
    Please give empirical evidence to back this up. I'm sure whatever you say can easily be refuted.
  9. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    28 Feb '17 19:21
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    Please give empirical evidence to back this up. I'm sure whatever you say can easily be refuted.
    The same amount of immigrants are going to enter Britain.

    Scotland will have a second referendum and will leave the UK.

    The border in Ireland is going to cost the UK a lot of money.

    A lot of small businesses who trade with Europe will be screwed.

    Major investors will leave London for the mainland.

    England will become ever more the sweatshop of Europe, as it does everything possible to attract investers.

    The whole brexit thing is going to remain a source of friction in parliament and on the streets: people voted for something they're not going to get.
  10. 28 Feb '17 20:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The same amount of immigrants are going to enter Britain.

    Scotland will have a second referendum and will leave the UK.

    The border in Ireland is going to cost the UK a lot of money.

    A lot of small businesses who trade with Europe will be screwed.

    Major investors will leave London for the mainland.

    England will become ever more the sweatshop ...[text shortened]... friction in parliament and on the streets: people voted for something they're not going to get.
    Edit: (sorry for the wall of text shavixmir, this ended up being longer than intended, but please take the time to read it)

    Not one company or bank has moved any operations from the UK. A study done published yesterday by the financial times showed that investors regard the UK as the world's 3rd most important country for investment, beating germany for the first time. The economy grew close to 2.5 percent last year, fantastic growth for a developed country.

    Brexit will not stop the UK from becoming the richest country in Europe by 2030, and there has not, and will not be, an exodus from London. No other european city has remotely the infrastructure to handle banking.

    There is a saying. It goes "It takes 3 days to fire someone in London, 3 months in geneva and 3 years in Paris". London was always the finance capital of the world for the entire modern era, and the single market has been in effect for 12 years. The single market didn't make london, and London doesn't need it to stay competitive. Especially not with dozens of countries lining up for free trade deals. Investor confidence is at an all time high, and it is rising on a monthly basis.

    There will be a crackdown on immigration. Slowly, but gradually. Some immigration is positive, and many recognize this, but uncontrolled is putting extreme pressure on our NHS, which is on the brink of collapse, and housing.

    Small businesses won't be screwed. A free trade deal will be struck between the UK and the EU, just like the EU has done with other countries. The EU needs what the UK has to offer, and the UK needs the EU. Whatever the dynamics, once everyone has calmed down a deal will be struck, and there will be compromise on both sides.

    Regarding Scotland, we would all be terribly sad if they decided to leave because we have been through thick and thin together for 400 years, and we will be perfectly fine after brexit, but anyway. Nicola Sturgeon's party wants independence no matter what happens, and brexit just brings forward the second referendum by a few years. The polls for support are completely unchanged from two years ago, 55-45, so all this has done is make it happen sooner rather than later.

    Just like in Quebec, there will be a second vote to put it to bed once and for all. If Scotland chooses to leave, from an unemotional point of view it will harm them more, but I will let go. It is their sovereign right to leave, if they so wish. The UK does not colonize anyone anymore. The UK will not try to make an example out of Scotland for leaving, as people should want to be part of a club. Trying to bully people into staying in will never work in the long run.

    From an emotional standpoint I would be upset but I'm not sure it would last long. Once it becomes evident that Scotland cannot be admitted to the EU with the current state of its economy or the fact that there are issues with spain and others etc, and being forced to adopt the Euro which is fundamentally flawed, the SNP will struggle to hold onto power.

    Scotland needs this vote and the nation needs to have this discussion regarding independence, because we need to get it out of our systems. At the end of the day we might end up a closer union, and on towards a brighter future. Plus the uncertainty is wreaking havoc on the Scottish economy, and nobody wants to see it damaged more.

    You misjudge the mood in the UK regarding brexit. Theresa May, has, for the most part, turned brexit britain into a beacon of calm. She has remained completely unantagonistic towards the EU, and has frequently mentioned that she wants the EU to succeed, it's just that we were never really committed to the idea. But if you want it, that's OK. Just today she refused to meet Marine le Pen, who is an enemy of european integration, and an actual fascist, not today's version of one. She, and most of us, don't want to harm the EU, we just don't want to be a part of it anymore. Not that we really were in the first place.

    She has turned many remainers into reluctant brexiteers, and has managed to unite the nation with a positive message and level headedness. She has avoided being petulant like Michel Barnier and Guy Verhofstad, and it is starting to have an affect. Jean Claude Juncker's tone has changed dramatically over the past month or so, and the negotiations will be difficult, but constructive.

    It will not be an easy road, and there will be bumps, but we are far from screwed. The UK has been through so much worse in the past. Two world wars, the breakup of the empire and loss of our place on the world stage, to the responsibility of kicking some sense into Germany every so often

    .
  11. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    28 Feb '17 21:45
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    What consequences? What realization?
    The consequences of revolution rather than evolution.

    The realisation that world economics is more complicated than taxi-driver philosophy.
  12. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    28 Feb '17 21:48
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka

    It will not be an easy road, and there will be bumps, but we are far from screwed. The UK has been through so much worse in the past. Two world wars, the breakup of the empire
    .
    But World Wars are not self-inflicted!
  13. 28 Feb '17 21:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    The consequences of revolution rather than evolution.

    The realisation that world economics is more complicated than taxi-driver philosophy.
    So a democratic vote is a revolution? It is the exact opposite of a revolution. It is an evolution. You have clearly bungled this.

    I suppose to Brussels, who overturned a french and dutch referendum rejecting the EU constitution in 2004, and then cancelled 6 more referendums across europe for fear of widespread rejection, and then had the gall to push the constitution through anyway, this is a revolution. A non-violent revolution against bureaucracy with complete contempt for democracy.
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    01 Mar '17 00:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    So a democratic vote is a revolution? It is the exact opposite of a revolution. It is an evolution. You have clearly bungled this.

    I suppose to Brussels, who overturned a french and dutch referendum rejecting the EU constitution in 2004, and then cancelled 6 more referendums across europe for fear of widespread rejection, and then had the gall to push ...[text shortened]... a revolution. A non-violent revolution against bureaucracy with complete contempt for democracy.
    Delusional

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-28/meanwhile-germany
  15. 01 Mar '17 08:43
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Delusional

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-28/meanwhile-germany
    Why should I care about a carnival parade? Yeah, it's satire. Good for them. It doesn't affect politics.