Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    23 Jul '18 03:222 edits
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Of course, it's likely that a HRC Department of Justice wouldn't have supported the lawsuit against Harvard University to destroy its affirmative action program. But you have very little concern for the blacks and Hispanics that would suffer should that lawsuit be successful.
    The dogmatic racist troll No1Marauder keeps ignoring
    already cited facts ( in another thread) that if the lawsuit
    prevails against Harvard, then the most likely result will
    be to increase Asian Anerican admissions and reduce
    white admissions. Thr overwhelming majority of the
    grievances was about how Harvard discriminates in
    favor of whites against Asian Americans.

    The racist white No1Marauder apparently wants to
    exploit the smokescreen of black and Latino admissions
    in order to insure that rich whites with inferior academic
    merit will keep being admitted over poor Asian Americans
    from non-English-speaking immigrant families, whom
    No1Narauder regards as unfairly privileged.
  2. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
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    23 Jul '18 04:581 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    The "record", of course, shows no such thing and you are, as usual, brazenly lying.

    Trump is a worse President than HRC would have been, but that doesn't mean the consequences of a Hillary victory wouldn't have been worse for this country in the medium and long run. Picking a President isn't the same as hiring a plumber as KN seems to think.
    My one qualm with that line of reasoning is the now impending rightist lock on the Supreme Court.

    I pray that the Court's precedent decisions of the past are not soon to be ignored.
  3. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    23 Jul '18 06:24
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    The dogmatic racist troll No1Marauder keeps ignoring
    already cited facts ( in another thread) that if the lawsuit
    prevails against Harvard, then the most likely result will
    be to increase Asian Anerican admissions and reduce
    white admissions. Thr overwhelming majority of the
    grievances was about how Harvard discriminates in
    favor of whites against ...[text shortened]...
    from non-English-speaking immigrant families, whom
    No1Narauder regards as unfairly privileged.
    No such facts exist; you are lying. The results of the elimination of affirmative action are well known and extensively documented; there is a sharp drop in black and Hispanic college enrollment particularly at select universities:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/heres-what-happens-when-you-ban-affirmative-action-in-college-admissions/

    https://money.cnn.com/2015/12/23/pf/college/college-race-affirmative-action/index.html

    https://www.npr.org/2013/06/23/194656555/what-happens-without-affirmative-action-the-story-of-ucla

    https://scholars.org/brief/when-affirmative-action-banned-minority-applicants-college-have-harder-time-even-neighboring

    https://www.princeton.edu/news/2005/06/06/ending-affirmative-action-would-devastate-most-minority-college-enrollment
  4. Germany
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    23 Jul '18 15:48
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    No such facts exist; you are lying. The results of the elimination of affirmative action are well known and extensively documented; there is a sharp drop in black and Hispanic college enrollment particularly at select universities:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/heres-what-happens-when-you-ban-affirmative-action-in-college-admissions/

    https: ...[text shortened]... n.edu/news/2005/06/06/ending-affirmative-action-would-devastate-most-minority-college-enrollment
    There was a sharp drop in the political representation of "whites" after the end of apartheid.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    23 Jul '18 16:041 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    There was a sharp drop in the political representation of "whites" after the end of apartheid.
    That was a desirable result given that their political representation was augmented by racist laws and practices.

    Sharp drops in college enrollment, particularly at the best universities, among ethnic groups that are victims of widespread invidious discrimination that makes it extremely difficult for individuals of those groups to meet the arbitrarily imposed standards usually used to decide admissions, is not. It will worsen such invidious discrimination's pernicious impact on income and wealth of such individuals.
  6. Germany
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    23 Jul '18 16:06
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    That was a desirable result given that their political representation was augmented by racist laws and practices.

    Sharp drops in college enrollment, particularly at the best universities, among ethnic groups that are victims of widespread invidious discrimination that makes it extremely difficult for individuals of those groups to meet the arbitrari ...[text shortened]... rsen such invidious discrimination's pernicious impact on income and wealth of such individuals.
    So ban discriminatory practices by mandating anonymous college applications based only on academic criteria.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jul '18 16:08
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    So ban discriminatory practices by mandating anonymous college applications based only on academic criteria.
    That has zero remedial effects on the pervasive invidious discrimination prior.
  8. Germany
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    23 Jul '18 16:43
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    That has zero remedial effects on the pervasive invidious discrimination prior.
    So apply remedial effects to the situation prior by eliminating poverty and ensuring universal access to high-quality education.
  9. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    23 Jul '18 16:51
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    So apply remedial effects to the situation prior by eliminating poverty and ensuring universal access to high-quality education.
    That's like saying the seatbelt is broken so buy a better car.

    Even is eliminating poverty were possible (which it may not be, given that defining poverty is often a function of the lowest percentiles of wealth in a given society), it will take time. That doesn't mean we can't institute temporary remedial measures until we finish building Utopia.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jul '18 16:521 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    So apply remedial effects to the situation prior by eliminating poverty and ensuring universal access to high-quality education.
    Gee, that's so easy! Why hasn't every country done it?

    There are always going to be a limited number of top educational institutions and a limited number of spaces in them. Selecting who gets those financially remunerative spots without taking into account the effect of pervasive invidious discrimination on the ability of individuals from certain disadvantaged groups to achieve exceptional results on "standard" (i.e. largely arbitrary) measures to predict future academic success, merely reinforces the societal effects of said invidious discrimination. Unfortunately, the State can't merely decree that nobody have racist views or act on them to the disadvantage of individuals from certain groups.
  11. Germany
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    23 Jul '18 17:04
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    There are always going to be a limited number of top educational institutions and a limited number of spaces in them.
    For Swiss students, ETH is not selective in its undergraduate admission procedures. Like every public university in Switzerland, ETH is obliged to grant admission to every Swiss resident who took the Matura.[19] Applicants from foreign countries are required to take either the reduced entrance exam or the comprehensive entrance exam although some applicants from several European countries are exempted from this rule. An applicant can be admitted to ETH even without any verifiable educational records by passing the comprehensive entrance exam.[20]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Zurich#Admission_and_education
  12. Germany
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    23 Jul '18 17:07
    Originally posted by @sh76
    That's like saying the seatbelt is broken so buy a better car.

    Even is eliminating poverty were possible (which it may not be, given that defining poverty is often a function of the lowest percentiles of wealth in a given society), it will take time. That doesn't mean we can't institute temporary remedial measures until we finish building Utopia.
    It's more like saying: repair the car and the seatbelt instead of replacing the broken seatbelt in a broken car with a belt made from rotten intestines.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jul '18 17:09
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    For Swiss students, ETH is not selective in its undergraduate admission procedures. Like every public university in Switzerland, ETH is obliged to grant admission to every Swiss resident who took the Matura.[19] Applicants from foreign countries are required to take either the reduced entrance exam or the comprehensive entrance exam although som ...[text shortened]... e entrance exam.[20]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Zurich#Admission_and_education
    Great for the Swiss. 34,295 applied for admission to Harvard last year; should they all have been accepted? https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/3/27/regular-admissions-class-2018/
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    23 Jul '18 17:21
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    For Swiss students, ETH is not selective in its undergraduate admission procedures. Like every public university in Switzerland, ETH is obliged to grant admission to every Swiss resident who took the Matura.[19] Applicants from foreign countries are required to take either the reduced entrance exam or the comprehensive entrance exam although som ...[text shortened]... e entrance exam.[20]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Zurich#Admission_and_education
    The Swiss People don't seem as interested in a university education as others; it says here that only 32% "Percentage of today’s young people expected to complete university education (tertiary-type A) in their lifetime" (http://www.oecd.org/education/Switzerland_EAG2013%20Country%20Note.pdf) which ranks well below OECD averages.

    By contrast, about 70% of US high school graduates go right to college. https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/69-point-7-percent-of-2016-high-school-graduates-enrolled-in-college-in-october-2016.htm
  15. Germany
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    23 Jul '18 17:45
    I think the reply you were looking for was: "oh sorry, my bad. I didn't realize the U.S. education system was driven by elitism, but now I realize this does not have to be the case."
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