Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberlemondrop
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    04 Feb '17 05:16
    even Howard Stern is concerned
  2. Subscriberdivegeester
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    04 Feb '17 08:50
    Originally posted by lemondrop
    even Howard Stern is concerned
    There are clearly a lot of cans out of place on his shelves, so to speak.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Feb '17 12:36
    Originally posted by divegeester
    There are clearly a lot of cans out of place on his shelves, so to speak.
    It's just narcissism, albeit one of the most severe I've ever heard of.

    And oh, yeah, quite a bit of neurosis is there too. As debilitating as it is, the narcissism is only a symptom.

    Personally, I find that "... he's just like any other man, only more so."

    MUCH more so. Which leads me to think he's overcompensating for something.
  4. Standard memberfinnegan
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    04 Feb '17 13:064 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    It's just narcissism, albeit one of the most severe I've ever heard of.

    And oh, yeah, quite a bit of neurosis is there too. As debilitating as it is, the narcissism is only a symptom.

    Personally, I find that "... he's just like any other man, only more so."

    MUCH more so. Which leads me to think he's overcompensating for something.
    Narcissism is a personality disorder rather than a mental illness.

    It is considered to be the outcome of severe lack of attachment in infancy and childhood. There is room for investigating in each case if that is due to bad parenting as such or other factors within the experience of the child, including illness. It is not good to insist that every child with defective attachment should be blamed on their parents.

    The Harvard Business Review, in about 1974 ( I forget) produced a special issue on narcissism, and overall established the evidence that the boards of public and private companies have a predilection for appointing narcissists to the top positions. This is evidently also the case for democratic elections. Notice the persistent demand for "leadership" qualities from people who have only a dim understanding of what it is that makes leadership effective. (The best leaders in business have often been shown to be introverts with poor people skills - who wants to know that?).

    The Harvard Business Review was concerned, and devoted its special issue to the topic, because even then it was clearly understood that narcissists cause immense damage to the companies they "lead" and are very difficult to control or remove. One of the problems which wil be relevant to Trump is that, because it is not a mental illness, it will be difficult to take action on mental health grounds, which I think would be easier. (If you can show that the president is insane then you can take action). Consider this alongside the evidence that there is a concentration of psychopaths in two environments - one is prisons, the other is the executive ranks of public companies.

    This being the case, Americans will now need to work hard to understand how best to deal with a narcissist. I can tell you that most psychotherapists HATE working with narcissists because they are so incorrigible and such time wasters. I can suggest a few decent books giving advice to relatives of narcissists which might be of interest, if anyone cares.

    Just be clear on one thing. A narcissist will never listen to reason and will never tolerate being told they are wrong. That is an existential issue for them - something they just cannot tolerate. So this president will not surround himself with advisers who tell him the truth on any subject whatsoever. He will occupy an increasingly narrow bubble and develop correspondingly grandiose delusions. They will be big ones - HUGE.

    This is why the failure of the Senate and Congress to properly veto incompetent and unqualified advisers for the president is the most profound failure of the constitutional system possible. By abdicating their responsibility for partisan reasons, they are permitting the worst possible scenario to unfold. Trump should be surrounded with people that he cannot fire who have the character to set proper standards and that is not what we are seeing. There is no point being subtle and diplomatic with a narcissistic. Nothing short of a loud imperative from an authority with sufficient status will penetrate that thick skin.
  5. Germany
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    04 Feb '17 13:19
    Don't worry - it's just alternative sanity.
  6. Standard memberRemoved
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    04 Feb '17 13:25
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Narcissism is a personality disorder rather than a mental illness.

    It is considered to be the outcome of severe lack of attachment in infancy and childhood. There is room for investigating in each case if that is due to bad parenting as such or other factors within the experience of the child, including illness. It is not good to insist that every chil ...[text shortened]... rt of a loud imperative from an authority with sufficient status will penetrate that thick skin.
    You just described Obama.
  7. Subscriberdivegeester
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    04 Feb '17 13:27
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Don't worry - it's just alternative sanity.
    😵
  8. Standard membershavixmir
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    04 Feb '17 13:27
    The man's a narcissist.
    I told you all this last year.

    A classic example of one, by the way.
    Everything revolves around protecting his ego.
  9. Subscriberdivegeester
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    04 Feb '17 13:30
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    You just described Obama.
    I don't know all the ins and outs of his terms but Obama looked like a hero to me. Championed alfordable healthcare for all, was a statesman, intelligent, charming and well natured. Although his foreign policy was a bit twat to be fair.

    How you lot can look at the monstrous, vain, bullying orangutan and see improvement is a mystery to me.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    04 Feb '17 13:42
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Narcissism is a personality disorder rather than a mental illness.

    It is considered to be the outcome of severe lack of attachment in infancy and childhood. There is room for investigating in each case if that is due to bad parenting as such or other factors within the experience of the child, including illness. It is not good to insist that every chil ...[text shortened]... rt of a loud imperative from an authority with sufficient status will penetrate that thick skin.
    While it has never been utilized, the XXV Amendment to the Constitution does provide a vehicle for removing a President other than by impeachment upon, initially, a simple written declaration that he is "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office". The relevant portion follows:

    4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

    Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

    http://constitutionus.com/
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Feb '17 13:44
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    You just described Obama.
    Oh, please.

    You're very much in the minority with that crap. You sound like a five year old.

    Anyone with even the most cursory definition of narcissism can see that Trump has this in a big way. Obama has two teenage daughters. This would definitely keep any narcissism in check. Nobody with teenage daughters can get away with thinking that they're "all that".
  12. Unknown Territories
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    04 Feb '17 13:47
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    It's just narcissism, albeit one of the most severe I've ever heard of.

    And oh, yeah, quite a bit of neurosis is there too. As debilitating as it is, the narcissism is only a symptom.

    Personally, I find that "... he's just like any other man, only more so."

    MUCH more so. Which leads me to think he's overcompensating for something.
    Well, we can def take your word for it: if anyone is narcissistic and neurotic, it's you!
    And who better than you to opine on how deplorable men in general are?
    You're literally the expert on bad men, right?
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Feb '17 13:48
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The man's a narcissist.
    I told you all this last year.

    A classic example of one, by the way.
    Everything revolves around protecting his ego.
    I think every one of us in here (the ones with a brain of their own, anyways) has said this sometime within the past 9 months.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Feb '17 13:491 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    And who better than you to opine on how deplorable men in general are?
    You're literally the expert on bad men, right?
    You don't know the half of it, sweetheart.
  15. Unknown Territories
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    04 Feb '17 13:52
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Oh, please.

    You're very much in the minority with that crap. You sound like a five year old.

    Anyone with even the most cursory definition of narcissism can see that Trump has this in a big way. Obama has two teenage daughters. This would definitely keep any narcissism in check. Nobody with teenage daughters can get away with thinking that they're "all that".
    There goes that theory: I have four daughters (three in the bracket) and live with five women, and yet--- according to you--- I'm one of the most narcissistic people ever.
    Your rules of thumbs seem more like suggestions, it would appear.

    Oh, and those "daughters of O'Bammy" you allude to?
    Yeah: not likely they're really his.
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