Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Jun '17 11:06
    Ulster has been struggling over power sharing in the light of the Unionists' failure to investigate corruption or at least gross incompetence in the handling of a green energy scheme / scam. The failure to restore power sharing may result in imposition of direct rule from London again.

    Ulster politics is already in turmoil over the prospects of a hard border alongside a hard Brexit. It is not evident that English politicians are terribly interested in how this affects the peace process there. How committed will the DUP be to sustaining the achievements to date on cross border relationships?

    With the Ulster Unionists now agreeing to prop up a minority Tory administration in London, their incentive to reach a compromise on power sharing, and thus to avert direct rule, would seem to me pretty minimal.

    Meanwhile, Sinn Fein continues its policy of non participation in Parliament, so their seven MPs will not take up their seats, thus losing the possibility of influence in the way the Irish parties achieved historically. It is precisely when the Irish hold a abalance of power in Parliament that they have been most potent and that potency is now exclusively wielded by the Unionists.

    As in so many other matters, it seems that May's Tory government is wilfully playing with the nation' security in pursuit of class interests.
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Jun '17 11:34
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Ulster has been struggling over power sharing in the light of the Unionists' failure to investigate corruption or at least gross incompetence in the handling of a green energy scheme / scam. The failure to restore power sharing may result in imposition of direct rule from London again.

    Ulster politics is already in turmoil over the prospects of a hard b ...[text shortened]... y's Tory government is wilfully playing with the nation' security in pursuit of class interests.
    No principled Irish Republican could ever participate in the occupiers' government.

    I agree the fact that the Tories have to rely on ACLE Unionists will cause problems for the power sharing fantasy but since it's a sham anyway welcome this development.
  3. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Jun '17 11:403 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    No principled Irish Republican could ever participate in the occupiers' government.

    I agree the fact that the Tories have to rely on ACLE Unionists will cause problems for the power sharing fantasy but since it's a sham anyway welcome this development.
    No principled democrat would decline to participate in an elected chamber.

    There are English republicans already in parliament - Corbyn probably among them.

    So that's a vote for a return to terrorism is it?
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    09 Jun '17 11:43
    Interesting how the polls seem to have misjudged the UK vote. Happened across the pond as well in November. Despite technology and increased communication, pollsters seem to not know how to tap into what the masses are really thinking.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Jun '17 12:05
    Originally posted by finnegan
    No principled democrat would decline to participate in an elected chamber.

    There are English republicans already in parliament - Corbyn probably among them.

    So that's a vote for a return to terrorism is it?
    The voters who gave Sinn Fein three extra seats were presumably aware of its long standing policy not to actually sit in them. It would be a betrayal of their wishes to do so now just to satisfy appeasers like yourself.

    I'm sure Irish Republicans can figure out some policy between kissing Brit a** and terrorism even if you can't.
  6. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Jun '17 12:252 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The voters who gave Sinn Fein three extra seats were presumably aware of its long standing policy not to actually sit in them. It would be a betrayal of their wishes to do so now just to satisfy appeasers like yourself.

    I'm sure Irish Republicans can figure out some policy between kissing Brit a** and terrorism even if you can't.
    Let's not pursue that anal line of thinking.

    I am neither expecting nor advocating Sinn Fein engagement in Westminster's Parliament. While the Catholic community favours them over the SDLP the consequences are there to be seen.

    Also we have debated IRA terrorism fully in the past. Nobody needs a rerun of that.

    Instead, agree at least that this deal with May gives the Unionists exceptional and disproportionate political influence over the course of events, which will be at the expense of the power sharing agreement and the Catholic community.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Jun '17 12:44
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Let's not pursue that anal line of thinking.

    I am neither expecting nor advocating Sinn Fein engagement in Westminster's Parliament. While the Catholic community favours them over the SDLP the consequences are there to be seen.

    Also we have debated IRA terrorism fully in the past. Nobody needs a rerun of that.

    Instead, agree at least that this ...[text shortened]... events, which will be at the expense of the power sharing agreement and the Catholic community.
    The power sharing agreement is a fraud and the Catholic community in the ACLE has been and always will be under the boot of Unionists until all of Ireland is free of the UK.

    To the extent that this development makes that even clearer it will be a positive in the long run.
  8. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Jun '17 13:00
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The power sharing agreement is a fraud and the Catholic community in the ACLE has been and always will be under the boot of Unionists until all of Ireland is free of the UK.

    To the extent that this development makes that even clearer it will be a positive in the long run.
    Nobody in their right mind welcomes the threat of fresh violence and chaos.

    The point is to struggle for change through democratic means, however tough the struggle.

    When that fails one does indeed seek silver linings, but one does not wish for failure.
  9. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Jun '17 13:23
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/06/tories-leap-unpopularity-abyss/

    "The official Conservative party spokesman, Laura Kuenssberg, has just announced that Theresa May will remain as Prime Minister, supported by the Democratic Unionist Party in Northern Ireland. Now the DUP are probably the most unpleasant bunch of individuals in organised politics in the UK. The “No Surrender” arch protestant bigot party founded by Ian Paisley.

    It is fascinating that, after an election in which the Tories and their mainstream media acolytes attacked Jeremy Corbyn at every opportunity for his alleged sympathies with the IRA, the Tories have come to an arrangement with a party that was from its inception and still is the political wing of the loyalist terrorism. The mainstream media never even mentioned the existence of Loyalist terrorism during its sustained attack on Jeremy Corbyn.

    The loyalist terrorists murdered 1,016 people in the period 1969-2001. They shot someone dead in a supermarket car park in an internecine dispute actually during the election campaign. In all the media attacks on Corbyn about the IRA, there was no acknowledgement that Loyalist terrorism even existed. I think we can be pretty certain that the media are not going to start digging into the terrorist links of the Tories’ allies now. But social media is going to discredit them.

    The DUP are corrupt, homophobic, racist and above all religious bigots of the worst kind. The nastiest people in politics. The utterly discredited Theresa May refuses to resign and intends to continue to rule over us with the support of this ugly faction. Popular support for the Tory government is going to plunge to unprecedented levels. This gruesome malformation of a bigots’ alliance between Brexiteers is not going to last long as a government, and the popular retribution will be massive.
    "
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Jun '17 13:45
    Originally posted by finnegan
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/06/tories-leap-unpopularity-abyss/

    "The official Conservative party spokesman, Laura Kuenssberg, has just announced that Theresa May will remain as Prime Minister, supported by the Democratic Unionist Party in Northern Ireland. Now the DUP are probably the most unpleasant bunch of individuals in organised p ...[text shortened]... ers is not going to last long as a government, and the popular retribution will be massive."
    And that is the party that the majority of British in the ACLE support.

    What does that tell you?
  11. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Jun '17 14:103 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    And that is the party that the majority of British in the ACLE support.

    What does that tell you?
    It tells me how important Corbyn is to British politics.

    I want political change, not an outbreak of terrorist violence and nationalist or sectarian rhetoric.

    https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/44770/The+DUP+racist%2C+homophobic%2C+anti+abortion+bigots+with+a+history+of+violence

    [btw not everyone may know that Laura K is the political editor of the BBC.]
  12. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Jun '17 14:20
    Interesting book intro on Goodreads:

    Anti-Catholicism in Northern Ireland: Billy Wright, Ian Paisley, Shankill Butchers, Glenanne Gang, Robin Jackson, Robert McConnell
    by Source Wikipedia
    0.0 · Rating Details · 0 Ratings · 0 Reviews

    Please note that the content of this book primarily consists of articles available from Wikipedia or other free sources online. Pages: 54. Chapters: Billy Wright, Ian Paisley, Shankill Butchers, Glenanne gang, Robin Jackson, Robert McConnell, Protestant Ascendancy, Billy Hanna, Red Hand Defenders, Orange Volunteers, Billy McCaughey, Harris Boyle, Ulster Constitution Defence Committee, Davy Payne, Alan Campbell, Lenny Murphy, Brian Nelson, Eric Smyth, Ron Johnstone, John McKeague, Succession to the Crown Act 1707, William Moore, John William Nixon, Ulster Protestant League, Tara, William McGrath, Belfast Protestant Association. Excerpt: The Glenanne gang was a name given, since 2003, to a loose alliance of Northern Ireland loyalist extremists who carried out sectarian killings and bomb attacks in the 1970s against the Irish Catholic and Irish nationalist community. Most of its attacks took place in the area of County Armagh and mid Ulster referred to as the "murder triangle" by journalist Joe Tiernan. It also launched attacks elsewhere in Northern Ireland and in the Republic of Ireland. The gang included soldiers of the British Army, its Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR), the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), the Mid-Ulster Brigade of the illegal paramilitary Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and some Ulster Defence Association (UDA) members. It was allegedly commanded by British Military Intelligence and/or RUC Special Branch. The Pat Finucane Centre has attributed 87 killings to the Glenanne gang, including the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, the Miami Showband killings, and the Reavey and O'Dowd killings. A number of these attacks has been affirmed by Glenanne gang member and RUC Special Patrol Group (SPG) officer John Weir in his sworn affidavit published in the 2003 Barron Report. This was the findings of an official investigation into the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings commissioned by Irish Supreme Court Justice Henry Barron. The RUC Special Patrol Group was a speci... (
  13. Standard memberfinnegan
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    09 Jun '17 23:181 edit
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/so-who-are-dup

    More on the DUP's terrorist record in Ulster. The new Tory alliance is with terrorists.

    As the article clarifies, the DUP are not identical with the Ulster Unionists. "But while the UUP have a long running relationship with the Tories, and are a centre right party, the DUP are another thing entirely. The idea that they are near power in Westminster should worry us all."

    As for the reactionary policies of the DUP in Ulster, maybe this link will clarify. To be fair, there are Americans, in the Southern states primarily, who will not raise an eyebrow, but these evangelical fundamentalists are not representative of even the political right in the UK.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-hung-parliament-results-policies-manifesto-abortion-gay-marriage-climate-change-who-are-they-a7781656.html

    For balance, the one thing on which Sinn Fein and the DUP are in complete agreement is of course the Right To Life.
  14. Standard memberfinnegan
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    10 Jun '17 00:07
    A Republican source told me last night result meant Northern Irish politics had been “changed utterly”. They are right. The restoration of an executive – which the DUP leadership is keen to facilitate – is now even more implausible, and in nationalist eyes HM Government’s ability to act as an honest broker in negotiations has completed evaporated.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/06/conservatives-will-pay-steep-price-relying-dup

    The Northern Ireland agreements are now seriously at risk. This is no small matter and the Tories are casuing incredible damage.
  15. Standard memberfinnegan
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    10 Jun '17 00:25
    "While newspapers across the water in the United Kingdom obsess over meetings between elected members of the Labour Party and Sinn Féin some three decades ago, in the UK’s legacy colony of “Northern Ireland” the majority pro-union party is publicly courting the support of an active terrorist organisation and its affiliates. Though one doubts that we will ever see the DUP’s bellicose leader, Arlene Foster, being repeatedly grilled on television the way Jeremy Corbyn has been over the last year. As noted before, the Irish are condemned by the British for having “terrorists” whereas the British insist that they have “paramilitaries”. And that shapes and influences all political – or electoral – reporting by the media in Britain. Now or in the past."

    https://ansionnachfionn.com/2017/06/06/dup-secures-the-backing-of-british-terror-groups-in-the-uk-general-election/amp/
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