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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    07 Jul '17 22:091 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/07/donald-trump-poland-speech-western-civilisation-holy-war

    "Donald Trump's warning about 'western civilisation' evokes holy war.
    About all that was missing from Trump’s Warsaw war cry was a rousing chorus of ‘Onward Christian Soldiers’."
    --Walter Shapiro

    "Without blinding, unreasoning fear, the US probably would not have looked to
    a counterfeit Big Daddy figure for protection. Only if these are the worst of times
    would voters have disdained experience (both in the Republican primaries
    and the general election) and opted for a blustering former reality-show host.

    For a president whose grasp of theology abruptly stops at “Two Corinthians,”
    Trump seems to revel in the concept of a holy war. For that was at the
    core of his inflammatory rhetoric about the survival of western civilization.
    About all that was missing from Trump’s Warsaw war cry was a rousing
    chorus of Onward Christian Soldiers."
  2. Joined
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    07 Jul '17 22:32
    In other words, Western society and Christian society are synonymous.

    I couldn't disagree more.
  3. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    07 Jul '17 23:10
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/07/donald-trump-poland-speech-western-civilisation-holy-war

    "Donald Trump's warning about 'western civilisation' evokes holy war.
    About all that was missing from Trump’s Warsaw war cry was a rousing chorus of ‘Onward Christian Soldiers’."
    --Walter Shapiro

    "Without blinding, unreasoning fear, the U ...[text shortened]... at was missing from Trump’s Warsaw war cry was a rousing
    chorus of Onward Christian Soldiers."
    The US has been in a holy war since the Jihadists declared it, and there's not a damned thing wrong with the President speaking with resolve about it. He's still learning on the job, but he's learning fast.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Jul '17 23:46
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    The US has been in a holy war since the Jihadists declared it, and there's not a damned thing wrong with the President speaking with resolve about it. He's still learning on the job, but he's learning fast.
    Those calling it jihad are extremists. The US is not, and should not, be 'at war' with Islam. That goes against everything we stand for. Standing up and making excuses for a 70-year-old man-baby is shameful.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Jul '17 04:55
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    The US has been in a holy war since the Jihadists declared it, and there's not a damned thing wrong with the President speaking with resolve about it. He's still learning on the job, but he's learning fast.
    Donald Trump, of all people, calling for a Holy War to save "Western Civilization".😳

    It reminds me of this possibly apocryphal exchange:

    Journalist: What do you think of Western civilization?
    Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.
  6. Germany
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    08 Jul '17 07:29
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    The US has been in a holy war since the Jihadists declared it, and there's not a damned thing wrong with the President speaking with resolve about it. He's still learning on the job, but he's learning fast.
    Can you cite three examples illustrating how Donald Trump is "learning fast"?
  7. Germany
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    08 Jul '17 07:322 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Those calling it jihad are extremists. The US is not, and should not, be 'at war' with Islam. That goes against everything we stand for. Standing up and making excuses for a 70-year-old man-baby is shameful.
    The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war. When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace, and that's made brothers and sisters out of every race, out of every race.

    America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms, and dads, and they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.


    - George W. Bush, September 2001
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Jul '17 07:571 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war. When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace, and that's made broth ...[text shortened]... fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.


    - George W. Bush, September 2001
    Exactly.

    Oh, the thrilling days of yesteryear, back when America had real Presidents.
  9. Standard membershavixmir
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    08 Jul '17 07:58
    The mere fact he held the speech in Poland; homophobic, racist and on most issues far to the right of the rest of the EU, says it all.

    He should have chosen Sweden, the Netherlands or France.
  10. Germany
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    08 Jul '17 08:00
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    The mere fact he held the speech in Poland; homophobic, racist and on most issues far to the right of the rest of the EU, says it all.

    He should have chosen Sweden, the Netherlands or France.
    But there would have been protesters to hurt Donnie's feelings!
  11. Zugzwang
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    08 Jul '17 19:301 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    In other words, Western society and Christian society are synonymous.
    I couldn't disagree more.
    Hitler certainly believed that the Jews should have no place in European civilization.

    Christian Poland (where US President Trump practically called for a 'holy war' ) has a
    long record of anti-Jewish bigotry, including shortly after the Second World War.
    Some Jews who had survived the Nazis were then killed by Poles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_violence_in_Poland,_1944%E2%80%9346

    "The anti-Jewish violence in Poland from 1944 to 1946 refers to a series of violent incidents
    in Poland that immediately followed the end of World War II in Europe and influenced the
    postwar history of the Jews as well as Polish-Jewish relations. The exact number of
    Jewish victims is a subject of debate with 327 documented cases,[1] and the range,
    estimated by different writers, from 1,000[2] to 2,000 (an undocumented minority view)."
  12. Zugzwang
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    08 Jul '17 19:471 edit
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    The US has been in a holy war since the Jihadists declared it, and there's not a damned thing wrong with the President speaking with resolve about it.
    He's still learning on the job, but he's learning fast.
    US President Trump apparently prefers to define 'Western civilization' *not* in terms of
    democratic ideals or secular values but according to Blut und Boden ('blood and soil' ).

    When will the hard right-wing white American Sleepguy volunteer to fight for this brave
    new crusade of Christendom against the dark infidel hordes?

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/31/worlds-muslim-population-more-widespread-than-you-might-think/

    There are an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, so killing them all may take some time.

    As I recall, Twhitehead wrote that he expects China to become the world's most powerful country before very long.
    I think that more time will be needed. I would predict, however, that if the USA spends
    most of the rest of the 21st century obsessively pursuing a holy war against Islam and all
    Muslims, then China's ascendancy over the USA will become more assured and welcome.
  13. Subscribersonhouse
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    08 Jul '17 20:16
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    US President Trump apparently prefers to define 'Western civilization' *not* in terms of
    democratic ideals or secular values but according to Blut und Boden ('blood and soil' ).

    When will the hard right-wing white American Sleepguy volunteer to fight for this brave
    new crusade of Christendom against the dark infidel hordes?

    http://www.pewresearch. ...[text shortened]... am and all
    Muslims, then China's ascendancy over the USA will become more assured and welcome.
    And needed in that case. But hopefully democracy will prevail and get rid of the ultra right and more reasonable people take their place at the helm. Trumpf can do a LOT of damage in 4 years though.
  14. Zugzwang
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    08 Jul '17 22:38
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    And needed in that case. But hopefully democracy will prevail and get rid of the ultra right and more reasonable people take their place at the helm. Trumpf can do a LOT of damage in 4 years though.
    According to many Americans here, democracy *did* prevail in the 2016 US Presidential election.
    While Donald Trump did not win a plurality of the popular vote, some Americans here have
    explained why the US electoral college system is far superior to every other form of democracy.

    In the 2016 election, most white men and most white women voted for Donald Trump.
    I find it 'interesting' (sarcasm) that some 'liberal' whites prefer not to hold their fellow whites
    responsible for his election while instead hoping for a greater turn-out of non-white voters next time.
    So many 'liberal' white Americans apparently have assigned non-white Americans the
    grave responsibility of saving America from the racism of other white Americans!
  15. Behind the scenes
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    09 Jul '17 01:142 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/07/donald-trump-poland-speech-western-civilisation-holy-war

    "Donald Trump's warning about 'western civilisation' evokes holy war.
    About all that was missing from Trump’s Warsaw war cry was a rousing chorus of ‘Onward Christian Soldiers’."
    --Walter Shapiro

    "Without blinding, unreasoning fear, the U ...[text shortened]... at was missing from Trump’s Warsaw war cry was a rousing
    chorus of Onward Christian Soldiers."
    Donald Trump's twisted logic is largely a result of viewing the world through the narrow view of a spoiled child, who has spent decades as dictator of his little kingdom. Hopefully his reign of stupidity will go away with the next general election.
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