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Debates Forum

  1. 23 Mar '12 12:56
    The President has been traveling on Campaign Tourapalooza 2012 this month and seeking to explain rising oil and gas prices. One of his favorite tag lines has been to say that you “can’t just drill your way to lower gas prices.”But he’s also tossing out another figure when he makes these remarks. "With only 2% of the world’s oil reserves, we can’t just drill our way to lower gas prices,” he said. “Not when we consume 20% of the world’s oil.”

    But the figure Obama uses — proved oil reserves — vastly undercounts how much oil the U.S. actually contains. In fact, far from being oil-poor, the country is awash in vast quantities — enough to meet all the country’s oil needs for hundreds of years.

    The U.S. has 22.3 billion barrels of proved reserves, a little less than 2% of the entire world’s proved reserves, according to the Energy Information Administration.

    But as the EIA explains, proved reserves “are a small subset of recoverable resources,” because they only count oil that companies are currently drilling for in existing fields. When you look at the whole picture, it turns out that there are vast supplies of oil in the U.S., according to various government reports.

    ( Soruces: Energy information Admin, dept. of energy, Rand Corp.,Institute for energy research)


    Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/oil-reserve/2012/03/17/us-oil-scarcity-myth#ixzz1pwZy6q6x
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Mar '12 13:17
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    The President has been traveling on Campaign Tourapalooza 2012 this month and seeking to explain rising oil and gas prices. One of his favorite tag lines has been to say that you “can’t just drill your way to lower gas prices.”But he’s also tossing out another figure when he makes these remarks. "With only 2% of the world’s oil reserves, we can’t jus ...[text shortened]...
    Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/oil-reserve/2012/03/17/us-oil-scarcity-myth#ixzz1pwZy6q6x
    Do you think the U.S. can drill its way - domestically - to lower gas prices? Do you think that the drilling of oil within the U.S. can affect world prices significantly and over a long period?
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    23 Mar '12 15:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Do you think the U.S. can drill its way - domestically - to lower gas prices? Do you think that the drilling of oil within the U.S. can affect world prices significantly and over a long period?
    With the disclaimer that I think it would be a bad idea for security, economic and environmental reasons (high gas prices are good in the long run IMO because they decrease long run demand as people choose more fuel efficient cars and shorter commutes), I think that we could.

    The US consumes more oil than any other country and if we brought ourselves to the point of not having to import any OPEC petroleum, I would think that would have to affect the global market.

    It is true, as PP pointed out in the other thread, that oil produced in the US would be placed on the world market and not necessarily all be used to displace imports.

    Nevertheless, if the US could possibly acquire all necessary petroleum from non-OPEC sources, I could see the US government banning oil imports from countries that engage in anti-competitive behavior that would violate US antitrust laws (as OPEC clearly would). This would force most of the oil produced here to stay here.

    Incidentally, there does seem to be a consensus that fracking and increased production has led to a fall in natural gas pricing. While it is true that the US controls more of the world share of natural gas than of oil, it certainly seems probable that increased US production could affect oil prices as well.

    I want to stress though, as Moon pointed out on the other thread, this is NOT a short term fix. Short term oil prices swing wildly based on political developments, economic growth (or lack thereof) and speculation. Also, oil is a commodity with a low short term elasticity. If you own an SUV, you have to fill it up to get to work and shopping and the kids to school, regardless of what gas prices are. Sure, you can take a shorter vacation, but that's a small impact relative to the other factors that affect oil prices.

    But, petroleum does have a large long term elasticity. There's a reason Hummer went out of business. In 2001 and thereabouts, when gas was $1.25 a gallon, the roads were filled with enormous SUVs driven by individuals to get to work and shopping. The waste was enormous. Today... not so much. The failure of the Volt notwithstanding, I think any American driver will notice the difference between the size of the cars on the road now and the size of the cars on the road 10 years ago.

    It's the long term in which increased drilling would have its impact.
  4. 25 Mar '12 15:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    With the disclaimer that I think it would be a bad idea for security, economic and environmental reasons (high gas prices are good in the long run IMO because they decrease long run demand as people choose more fuel efficient cars and shorter commutes), I think that we could.

    The US consumes more oil than any other country and if we brought ourselves to the ...[text shortened]... e road 10 years ago.

    It's the long term in which increased drilling would have its impact.
    I hope you are not suggesting that we don't do anything for the long term. Doing nothing could be a threat to the world economy because of unknown factors that could emerge.

    Doing nothing because you want to encourage efficiency may not result in that outcome. If price fixing is going on it is unlikely that cartel will let that happen. The last thing they want is for prices to remain high for a long period of time in a consistent way. If people keep buying fuel efficient vehicles it will reduce the profits from their anti-competition scam. That would explain why prices fall every now and then to prevent a drop in demand over the long term.

    If I am right these high fuel prices will not last past the summer months. The Rockefellers will make sure of that so a lot of inefficient gas guzzlers stay on the road and make them and the Koch brothers wealthy and powerful at the expense of the common people.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    25 Mar '12 16:08
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I hope you are not suggesting that we don't do anything for the long term. Doing nothing could be a threat to the world economy because of unknown factors that could emerge.

    Doing nothing because you want to encourage efficiency may not result in that outcome. If price fixing is going on it is unlikely that cartel will let that happen. The last thing ...[text shortened]... d and make them and the Koch brothers wealthy and powerful at the expense of the common people.
    The Rockefellers?

    Are you stuck in a time warp and think it's still 1908 or something?
  6. 25 Mar '12 19:41
    Originally posted by sh76
    The Rockefellers?

    Are you stuck in a time warp and think it's still 1908 or something?
    The klan is slow to update the manual.
  7. 25 Mar '12 20:36
    Originally posted by sh76
    The Rockefellers?

    Are you stuck in a time warp and think it's still 1908 or something?
    You actually believe they have no wealth and power anymore? You are a fool!

    Keep on believing that and they will fleece us all. Who is one of the Senators of West Virginia? They write history the way they like you to believe. You are so pathetic!
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    25 Mar '12 21:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    You actually believe they have no wealth and power anymore? You are a fool!

    Keep on believing that and they will fleece us all. Who is one of the Senators of West Virginia? They write history the way they like you to believe. You are so pathetic!
    That Jay Rockefeller is a senator from West Virginia somehow means that the Rockefellers are somehow continuing to run the publicly held oil companies of today?

    Do the Exxon and Texaco shareholders and directors actually have any say in the running of their companies, or is it all Jay Rockefeller running it from a secret room somewhere?
  9. 25 Mar '12 21:14
    Originally posted by sh76
    That Jay Rockefeller is a senator from West Virginia somehow means that the Rockefellers are somehow continuing to run the publicly held oil companies of today?

    Do the Exxon and Texaco shareholders and directors actually have any say in the running of their companies, or is it all Jay Rockefeller running it from a secret room somewhere?
    Great! Tell us all who runs Exxon/Mobile and Texaco. Who are the majority of the shareholders? We all want to know.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    25 Mar '12 21:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Great! Tell us all who runs Exxon/Mobile and Texaco. Who are the majority of the shareholders? We all want to know.
    It's public record.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=xom+Major+Holders

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=CVX+Major+Holders

    I did a search on Yahoo Finance and the name "Rockefeller" doesn't appear once in the top shareholders or SEC filings of XOM or Chevron (which owns Texaco).

    But I suppose all that is just further evidence of a conspiracy, right?
  11. 25 Mar '12 21:41
    Originally posted by sh76
    It's public record.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=xom+Major+Holders

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=CVX+Major+Holders

    I did a search on Yahoo Finance and the name "Rockefeller" doesn't appear once in the top shareholders or SEC filings of XOM or Chevron (which owns Texaco).

    But I suppose all that is just further evidence of a conspiracy, right?
    Tell us who owns the top 5 shareholder corporations.

    Surely you can break it down to some names of individuals, right?
  12. 26 Mar '12 00:01
    Oil prices are tied absolutely to speculation. I doubt that additional drilling would have much of an effect on prices. It hasn't in the past.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't do it, but don't do it just thinking that it will impact prices at the pump.
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    26 Mar '12 02:01
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Tell us who owns the top 5 shareholder corporations.

    Surely you can break it down to some names of individuals, right?
    The top individuals are listed on the link I provided.

    None of them are named Rockefeller.
  14. 26 Mar '12 02:15
    Originally posted by badmoon
    Oil prices are tied absolutely to speculation. I doubt that additional drilling would have much of an effect on prices. It hasn't in the past.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't do it, but don't do it just thinking that it will impact prices at the pump.
    Supply and demand isn't just something people say, it means something. Oil from Libya and Sudan has been taken off the world market. That is one of the reasons speculators have made their investment bets the way they have.

    Drilling will have an impact on prices. It is foolish to think otherwise.
  15. 26 Mar '12 02:38
    Originally posted by sh76
    The top individuals are listed on the link I provided.

    None of them are named Rockefeller.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/2790272/ExxonMobils-Rex-Tillerson-under-Rockefeller-pressure-to-split-roles.html