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  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Dec '12 08:43
    Walmart security guard shoots 'shoplifting' mother dead in parking lot as she tries to escape with two young children

    A 27-year-old mother of two has been fatally shot by an off-duty sheriff's deputy after he suspected her of shoplifting at a Houston Walmart.

    Harris County Sheriff's deputies have said that victim Shelly Frey, Tisa Andrews and Yolanda Craig were stealing when they were confronted by Louis Campbell a 26-year veteran of the force who works as a security guard at the store.

    According to Campbell the women ran to their car and when he rushed to open the door, they accelerated away - at which point he fired the deadly shot into the car which hit Frey in the neck. [more...]

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245074/Walmart-security-guard-shoots-shoplifting-mother-dead-parking-lot-tries-escape-young-children.html?ICO=most_read_module

    "Conservatives" at freerepublic.com [where I spotted this article] are generally taking the security guard's side on this.

    In terms of the polarization of political discourse in the U.S., does the killing of Shelly Frey have much mileage as a 'left' v 'right' thing?
  2. 09 Dec '12 08:52
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Conservatives" at freerepublic.com [where I spotted this article] are generally taking the security guard's side on this.
    Wow. Yeah, I bet the life of the cop was in severe danger.

    The cop should be fired and prosecuted. The appropiate way to deal with shoplifting and attempting to escape arrest is being arrested and prosecuted, not being executed. Since they were getting away in a car, the cop could have easily just written down the number plate and paid a visit later.
  3. 09 Dec '12 12:31
    Isn't the daily mail the publication we were told not to trust when they wrote about the socialist death plan for babies?
  4. 09 Dec '12 12:33
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]Walmart security guard shoots 'shoplifting' mother dead in parking lot as she tries to escape with two young children

    A 27-year-old mother of two has been fatally shot by an off-duty sheriff's deputy after he suspected her of shoplifting at a Houston Walmart.

    Harris County Sheriff's deputies have said that victim Shelly Frey, Tisa Andrews and Yoland ...[text shortened]... U.S., does the killing of Shelly Frey have much mileage as a 'left' v 'right' thing?[/b]
    How do you describe a man as a veteran when he is 4 years away from being 30?

    What that man did was wrong, plain and simple and it is yet another example of
    stupid American gun law.

    There was a better way to deal with that situation without loss of life.

    I hate crime and criminals and theft is one of the worst, I would put Murder first.
    Dishonesty and theft run a close second.

    But what that man did was just plain stupid. Haven't they got cameras now?
    Couldn't the person be identified and caught later to answer for their crime?

    Prosecution and denial of liberty is far better and more shameful
    than shooting someone dead.
  5. 09 Dec '12 12:41
    I've read some different stories of this incident. Some of them say he was dragged by the vehicle before discharging his weapon. If that's the case, then that would be a little different then him standing in the street and firing at the car as it fled.
  6. 09 Dec '12 12:43
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I've read some different stories of this incident. Some of them say he was dragged by the vehicle before discharging his weapon. If that's the case, then that would be a little different then him standing in the street and firing at the car as it fled.
    Most shopping malls these days have cameras.

    What matters are facts, not stories or different versions of stories.
  7. 09 Dec '12 13:52
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Most shopping malls these days have cameras.

    What matters are facts, not stories or different versions of stories.
    johnny johnny, the currency here is perceptions, facts are circumstantial!
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    09 Dec '12 14:01
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    How do you describe a man as a veteran when he is 4 years away from being 30?

    What that man did was wrong, plain and simple and it is yet another example of
    stupid American gun law.

    There was a better way to deal with that situation without loss of life.

    I hate crime and criminals and theft is one of the worst, I would put Murder first.
    D ...[text shortened]... rosecution and denial of liberty is far better and more shameful
    than shooting someone dead.
    This has nothing to do with any American gun law. This guy was a security guard, not a private citizen, and, if the facts in the OP's article are correct, what he did was plainly illegal. It's black letter first year law school criminal law that you cannot use deadly force to protect or recover property.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Dec '12 14:21
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I've read some different stories of this incident. Some of them say he was dragged by the vehicle before discharging his weapon. If that's the case, then that would be a little different then him standing in the street and firing at the car as it fled.
    In the U.S., if trying to hold on to the door of a moving car doesn't work, are you allowed to shoot dead the shoplifter driving it? What's the real significance of the "little different" thing you see in your "different stories of this incident"?
  10. 09 Dec '12 14:29
    Originally posted by FMF
    In the U.S., if trying to hold on to the door of a moving car doesn't work, are you allowed to shoot dead the shoplifter driving it? What's the real significance of the "little different" thing you see in your "different stories of this incident"?
    The story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/walmart-shoplifter-killed-shot-dead-off-duty-deputy-houston-texas_n_2258080.html

    It states that when the car sped away the officer was trapped between the door and the frame of the car. In that situation I could see how he might be afraid for his life especially if he thought she wasn't going to stop driving. Pursuing shoplifters is his job, so following her into the parking lot and attempting to stop her leaving is what he's supposed to do. As I said, it's a lot different than if he were just standing there as she drove by and decided to shoot at her. If that was the case than KN is absolutely right in his assessment.
  11. 09 Dec '12 15:22
    Originally posted by dryhump
    The story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/walmart-shoplifter-killed-shot-dead-off-duty-deputy-houston-texas_n_2258080.html

    It states that when the car sped away the officer was trapped between the door and the frame of the car. In that situation I could see how he might be afraid for his life especially if he thought she wasn't going to stop dr ...[text shortened]... decided to shoot at her. If that was the case than KN is absolutely right in his assessment.
    Why do you need guns in America ?
  12. Subscriber my2sons
    Retired
    09 Dec '12 15:33
    Originally posted by phil3000
    Why do you need guns in America ?
    It's our God given right and protected by the second amendment.
  13. 09 Dec '12 15:35
    Originally posted by my2sons
    It's our God given right and protected by the second amendment.
    That's a peculiar religion, I don't know of any religion that mandates people should have the right to carry firearms.
  14. 09 Dec '12 15:45
    Originally posted by my2sons
    It's our God given right and protected by the second amendment.
    Did God want you to go around shooting each other ?
    There ia a law in England that a Scotsman carrying a bow in York can be legally killed but we dont use it .
    I think your "amendments " need amending .
  15. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Dec '12 15:48
    Originally posted by dryhump
    The story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/walmart-shoplifter-killed-shot-dead-off-duty-deputy-houston-texas_n_2258080.html

    It states that when the car sped away the officer was trapped between the door and the frame of the car. In that situation I could see how he might be afraid for his life especially if he thought she wasn't going to stop dr ...[text shortened]... decided to shoot at her. If that was the case than KN is absolutely right in his assessment.
    The link you provided does not describe anyone being "trapped between the door and the frame of the car." In fact the word "trapped" and "frame" do not appear in the text you cited. So you've just made that up for some reason.

    And so you have dodged my question, I reckon. Here it is again, if trying to hold on to the door of a moving car doesn't work, are you allowed to shoot dead the shoplifter driving it?

    If a pedestrian opened the door of a family car at a pedestrian crossing and was getting dragged along because they were still holding on, would they be justified in shooting the driver dead in front of her children?

    Or is the shooting death in some way perhaps justified by the fact the victim in this case was a shoplifter?