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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 07 Nov '12 19:14
    I’m not just looking at the Presidential election. I’m looking at 3 gay marriage initiatives passing 3-0 last night, where we were 0-36 before. I’m looking at the fact that Obama could mention gays and lesbians in his speech, and that his support might have been a factor in his win. That Tammy Baldwin could be elected in Wisconsin over a popular ex-governor. That even in red states like Missouri and Indiana voters could say that enough is enough with regard to outrageous statements about women and choice and decide that these men simply are not responsible enough to hold power. That despite blatant voter suppression policies in Ohio and Florida, that African American, Latino, and other progressive voters have the tenacity to wait in line for hours to cast a vote. That voters are mature enough to vote for higher taxes when needed. That we booted Joe Walsh and Allen West, and almost booted Michelle Bachman. That Sherrod Brown, who faced the biggest onslaught of dark money of any candidate excepting Obama, is still standing having weathered it – and maybe we showed last night that massive saturation of ads does not win elections. That New Hampshire now has all women in their five highest offices. That a four-eyed bookworm intellectual like Elizabeth Warren can beat out the quarterback cool kid. That Chris Christie is willing to buck the fringe tide in his party, and maybe, just maybe, can be an effective standard-bearer to restore at least some level of bipartisanship in the country. That working class white voters won Ohio for the scary black guy.

    Yeah, I wish we had abolished the death penalty in California yesterday, but that’s still a tough sell. At least we reformed 3 strikes after several similar failures. But California, for all its vaunted progressivism, still has a law and order streak which belies our reputation.

    And Eric Mar fought off a huge dark money dump in the Richmond District of SF.

    http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2012/11/eric_mar_wins.php

    I’m used to being depressed on the morning after. But this went very well.

    Josh Marshal lists a few more factoids to support my argument. I hadn’t even heard about Trump’s rant! That alone is worth the price of admission.

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/democratic-schadenfreude-gay-rights-allen-west-karl-rove-donald-trump.php?ref=fpa

    And if you’re a rich guy, are you going to fork over more money to Rove’s loser causes?

    And we elected our first Buddhist Senator!

    http://shambhalasun.com/news/?p=39867
  2. 07 Nov '12 19:19
    As long as we have enough people leaching off the government for assistance as a way of life, we will always be a center left nation.
  3. 07 Nov '12 19:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    As long as we have enough people leaching off the government for assistance as a way of life, we will always be a center left nation.
    You know, it's probably that lame, grossly oversimplified, and clueless meme that cost your side the election. You do realize that the red states take more in tax money than they give?
  4. 07 Nov '12 19:23
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    You know, it's probably that lame, grossly oversimplified, and clueless meme that cost your side the election.
    My side wasn't in the election.

    I choose to neither vote for rat poison nor arsenic. Two bad options does not mean I have a real choice. It just means I can pick my poison.
  5. 07 Nov '12 19:25
    ...compared to Saudi Arabia.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    07 Nov '12 19:30
    We're a center right nation where a center-left party (with a few left wing nut elements, perhaps) must stay centrist to compete with a far right wing party.

    Massachusetts is a left wing state, that's true.
  7. 07 Nov '12 19:34
    Originally posted by sh76
    We're a center right nation where a center-left party (with a few left wing nut elements, perhaps) must stay centrist to compete with a far right wing party.

    Massachusetts is a left wing state, that's true.
    I thought that on Monday. But looking at all of the results last night, I think we're more center left at this point. Everyone turned out. It was, by American standards, a good turnout. There is a political awareness in this country that we haven't seen in decades. And the social agenda - the right has lost the debate. Period.
  8. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Nov '12 19:36
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    I thought that on Monday. But looking at all of the results last night, I think we're more center left at this point. Everyone turned out. It was, by American standards, a good turnout. There is a political awareness in this country that we haven't seen in decades. And the social agenda - the right has lost the debate. Period.
    The demographics are skewing more toward center-left, but we've got a lot of work to do.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    07 Nov '12 19:37
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    I thought that on Monday. But looking at all of the results last night, I think we're more center left at this point. Everyone turned out. It was, by American standards, a good turnout. There is a political awareness in this country that we haven't seen in decades. And the social agenda - the right has lost the debate. Period.
    Okay, so explain 2010. Are you saying the nation changed character in 2 years?
  10. 07 Nov '12 19:39
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    I thought that on Monday. But looking at all of the results last night, I think we're more center left at this point. Everyone turned out. It was, by American standards, a good turnout. There is a political awareness in this country that we haven't seen in decades. And the social agenda - the right has lost the debate. Period.
    Well, the lesson for the GOP, having lost to a weak, beatable President, is that they can no longer rely solely on the angry, white, male fundamentalists, while GWB could scrape together just enough of them.
  11. 07 Nov '12 19:46
    Originally posted by sh76
    Okay, so explain 2010. Are you saying the nation changed character in 2 years?
    No. That's what happens when progressives become discouraged and sit out elections.

    It's like Ed Dionne said, "When the polls are bad for conservatives, they want to kill somebody. When the polls are bad for liberals, they want to kill themselves."
  12. 07 Nov '12 19:48
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    No. That's what happens when progressives become discouraged and sit out elections.
    And it is coupled with increased enthusiasm on the other side and a huge dose of displeasure over incumbents in the congress.
  13. 07 Nov '12 19:51
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    And it is coupled with increased enthusiasm on the other side and a huge dose of displeasure over incumbents in the congress.
    And disappointment in Obama for example. No public option. Inadequate stimulus during a near-depression.
  14. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    07 Nov '12 19:53 / 1 edit
    Look, being openly gay has nothing whatsoever to do with being liberal. Take ancient Rome: homosexual as the day is long but politically Newt Gingrich, with swords. The 'queer cringe' that Republicans confuse with values has something to do with how their mothers brought them up, nothing more.
  15. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    07 Nov '12 19:55
    Here is a vision of ancient Rome: http://theartofanimation.tumblr.com/post/35069576000/ryohei-hase