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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 11 Dec '14 13:17 / 1 edit
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAuWztI1Eec

    "remember kids, if you get unhooked on science soon enough, maybe you too could someday completely lack and understanding of it and be elected to chair the senate's environmental committee"
  2. 11 Dec '14 14:53
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAuWztI1Eec

    "remember kids, if you get unhooked on science soon enough, maybe you too could someday completely lack and understanding of it and be elected to chair the senate's environmental committee"
    Are you saying that government officials are incompetent? If so, I tend to agree.
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    11 Dec '14 18:45
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Are you saying that government officials are incompetent? If so, I tend to agree.
    Well this seems to be a direct comment on the people you elect and an indirect comment on the people who elect them.
  4. 11 Dec '14 18:52
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Are you saying that government officials are incompetent? If so, I tend to agree.
    Not so, they are experts on everything.

    Since they run everything they have to be experts on everything.
  5. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    11 Dec '14 19:40
    Originally posted by whodey
    Not so, they are experts on everything.

    Since they run everything they have to be experts on everything.
    You elect the people to run everything. Why do you elect these people?
  6. 11 Dec '14 19:57
    Originally posted by finnegan
    You elect the people to run everything. Why do you elect these people?
    I don't. I believe in llimited government, very limited.
  7. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    11 Dec '14 19:58
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I don't. I believe in llimited government, very limited.
    You do.
  8. 11 Dec '14 20:55
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Well this seems to be a direct comment on the people you elect and an indirect comment on the people who elect them.
    It applies to people who get elected in all countries. It is especially true in powerful countries, power corrupts.
  9. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    11 Dec '14 21:58
    Originally posted by Eladar
    It applies to people who get elected in all countries. It is especially true in powerful countries, power corrupts.
    Certainly so and that is why politics is all about learning to hold the powerful to account. You do not advocate accountability. You advocate walking away from the political responsibility of active citizenship, undermining responsible government at every turn, and handing power to unaccountable and unprincipled corporations.

    Mussolini may or may not have said (there is a dispute) that fascism is defined by the combination of state power with corporate power. That is what America is witnessing at home and exporting under the propaganda labels of small government, free markets and liberty.
  10. 11 Dec '14 22:25
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Certainly so and that is why politics is all about learning to hold the powerful to account. You do not advocate accountability. You advocate walking away from the political responsibility of active citizenship, undermining responsible government at every turn, and handing power to unaccountable and unprincipled corporations.

    Mussolini may or may not ha ...[text shortened]... at home and exporting under the propaganda labels of small government, free markets and liberty.
    You are kidding yourself if you believe the government can be held accountable. It is all smoke and mirrors and the powerful do what they want. The only way to limit their power is to take it away.

    If you grow government you grow government's power and you grow the power of the ruling elite.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    11 Dec '14 22:29
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You are kidding yourself if you believe the government can be held accountable. It is all smoke and mirrors and the powerful do what they want. The only way to limit their power is to take it away.

    If you grow government you grow government's power and you grow the power of the ruling elite.
    ...and give all the power to corporations? You advocate slavery.

    There are plenty of models for good, accountable government. Your ideological claptrap is tedious. You are a victim of the US corporate takeover of politics.
  12. 11 Dec '14 22:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    ...and give all the power to corporations? You advocate slavery.

    There are plenty of models for good, accountable government. Your ideological claptrap is tedious. You are a victim of the US corporate takeover of politics.
    No, give all power to individuals. Let individuals make their own decisions and let individuals be responsible for those decisions.

    I see nothing wrong with groups of people getting together for a common goal such as unions. I see nothing wrong with fighting for your rights.

    I do see something wrong with trusting a government to do what is right for you and right for others.

    You need to get out from behind the walls of the manor and explore the mountains.
  13. 11 Dec '14 23:01
    Originally posted by Finnegan to Eladar
    Well this seems to be a direct comment on the people you elect and an indirect comment on the people who elect them.
    Bertrand Russell once told Sidney Webb that a democratic government's
    leaders cannot be more stupid than most of its people because however
    stupid the leaders may be, the people were even more stupid to elect them.
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    11 Dec '14 23:02
    Originally posted by Eladar
    No, give all power to individuals. Let individuals make their own decisions and let individuals be responsible for those decisions.

    I see nothing wrong with groups of people getting together for a common goal such as unions. I see nothing wrong with fighting for your rights.

    I do see something wrong with trusting a government to do what is right for y ...[text shortened]... for others.

    You need to get out from behind the walls of the manor and explore the mountains.
    If I can join a union (and I was a union activist for many years, holding a range of elected positions) I can also join or even form a political party to work for rights that I consider important. My right to do that is called democracy. It is something that the major corporations are working violently to undermine and even prevent. The corporations are not working for liberty or individual freedom. They enslave their workers and usurp ownership of resources. In the CIA thread I have been listing the evidence of corporations allied corruptly with US government power to destroy democracy around the world.

    Without political organisation, individuals are powerless. You are advocating our enslavement.

    The evidence of successful, effective and highly productive democratic, secular government is plentiful. Democratic popular movements can effect enormous change and excellent social progress.
  15. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    11 Dec '14 23:15
    Originally posted by finnegan
    ...and give all the power to corporations? You advocate slavery.

    There are plenty of models for good, accountable government. Your ideological claptrap is tedious. You are a victim of the US corporate takeover of politics.
    'Slavery', unfortunate that this word has become trite from overuse and misuse by the likes of Finnegan.

    To great shame slavery does still to this day exist, sad that Finnegan tries to equate actual slavery and actual slave masters with corporations who have no power to force anyone to work for them or buy their products.

    Shame on Finnegan for his flippant use of this word.