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Debates Forum

  1. 15 Aug '11 05:16
    Bachmann, Perry, Cain, Paul, Palin, flip-flop Rom . . .

    What has happened to the Republican Party?
  2. 15 Aug '11 05:46
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Bachmann, Perry, Cain, Paul, Palin, flip-flop Rom . . .

    What has happened to the Republican Party?
    I hate to suggest this, but if the Democrats were the outs, we'd likely see as sorry a bunch. What has happened to the political class in the US? Who was our last great president? Someone said, in a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.
  3. 15 Aug '11 05:50
    Originally posted by JS357
    I hate to suggest this, but if the Democrats were the outs, we'd likely see as sorry a bunch. What has happened to the political class in the US? Who was our last great president? Someone said, in a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.
    As you indicate, the people get what (who) they vote for.

    I think the last great president was FDR.

    I think the most effective contemporary president was Clinton. He could have been even more effective had he not got head on the side.
  4. 15 Aug '11 12:57
    Originally posted by JS357
    I hate to suggest this, but if the Democrats were the outs, we'd likely see as sorry a bunch. What has happened to the political class in the US? Who was our last great president? Someone said, in a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.
    But they are a Republic, not a democracy. In addition, no one deserves the likes of "W" and Obama, nobody.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Aug '11 14:18
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Bachmann, Perry, Cain, Paul, Palin, flip-flop Rom . . .

    What has happened to the Republican Party?
    Romney is a perfectly good candidate and would make an excellent president, IMO.

    Don't give me than nonsense about flip-flopping. Obviously, you can't govern the same when you're governor of Massachusetts as the positions you take when you're running for GOP nomination. Every candidate in history has moved in their positions from the nomination to the general election and depending on which office s/he holds. Look at the political compass assessment of Obama's positions in the 2008 nomination process and in the general.

    You govern based on what you believe your constituents want and need. You can't be ideologically inflexible.
  6. 15 Aug '11 16:17
    Originally posted by sh76
    Romney is a perfectly good candidate and would make an excellent president, IMO.

    Don't give me than nonsense about flip-flopping. Obviously, you can't govern the same when you're governor of Massachusetts as the positions you take when you're running for GOP nomination. Every candidate in history has moved in their positions from the nomination to the genera ...[text shortened]... n what you believe your constituents want and need. You can't be ideologically inflexible.
    "You govern based on what you believe your constituents want and need."

    True, but the catch is in defining "constituents."
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Aug '11 16:23
    Originally posted by JS357
    "You govern based on what you believe your constituents want and need."

    True, but the catch is in defining "constituents."
    Of course, but I think we'd all agree that the people of the state of Massachusetts do not have the same wants and needs as the people of the United States in general.
  8. 15 Aug '11 16:30
    I disagree Sh. I believe that a politician should stick to principles and not simply govern by the last poll.

    Having said that, I think you have to be a realist and be willing to give some things up to achieve a greater good. I do not think that funamental principles of free enterprise should be thrown out because that's what the people want. If it is really what the people want, then amend the Constitution. Don't simply ignore the Constitution.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Aug '11 16:31
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I disagree Sh. I believe that a politician should stick to principles and not simply govern by the last poll.

    Having said that, I think you have to be a realist and be willing to give some things up to achieve a greater good. I do not think that funamental principles of free enterprise should be thrown out because that's what the people want. If it is ...[text shortened]... ally what the people want, then amend the Constitution. Don't simply ignore the Constitution.
    Most of these policy issues aren't mandated by the Constitution. If the people of MA want government subsidized healthcare, why shouldn't their governor give it to them in the most efficient manner he can?
  10. 15 Aug '11 17:20
    Originally posted by sh76
    Of course, but I think we'd all agree that the people of the state of Massachusetts do not have the same wants and needs as the people of the United States in general.
    Yes, but the constituents to whom Romney or any presidential candidate may have commitments, will include interest groups, of special concern to me being corporate interests. His clumsily stated "Corporations are people," if taken as charitably as I can in its context, gives us a presidential candidate acting like as a PR representative for corporate tax cutting. OK, a lot of people's paychecks and dividend checks have "Inc." in the payer's name, but such a one-sided response makes me wonder which of his constituents he puts first.
  11. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    15 Aug '11 22:35
    Originally posted by JS357
    I hate to suggest this, but if the Democrats were the outs, we'd likely see as sorry a bunch. What has happened to the political class in the US? Who was our last great president? Someone said, in a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.
    It happened when the republicans figured out that you don't need a great man to win an election...you just need a good communicator. The most obvious example is Ronald Reagan. The guy was an actor and suddenly becomes president...why?

    Simple. People will vote for someone they understand. They won't vote for something they don't understand. And being a great man means doing things that people don't understand why it's good for them in the long term.

    The new republican mantra is puppet presidents. Figureheads with someone behind the scene pulling the strings. Bush Jr. is the best example. Sara Palin is another. All puppets, that's all the republicans put forward these days.

    It's about winning the vote, and not about getting the best person for the job.
  12. 15 Aug '11 22:42
    Originally posted by uzless
    It happened when the republicans figured out that you don't need a great man to win an election...you just need a good communicator. The most obvious example is Ronald Reagan. The guy was an actor and suddenly becomes president...why?

    Simple. People will vote for someone they understand. They won't vote for something they don't understand. And being ...[text shortened]... days.

    It's about winning the vote, and not about getting the best person for the job.
    Reagan pulled us out of bad economic times, because he had good people around him,, unlike Obama
    Oh and he was a governor too...... so he had way more experience than Obama... say how many "present" votes did Obama cast while in the polical fray?
  13. 15 Aug '11 22:48
    Originally posted by moon1969
    As you indicate, the people get what (who) they vote for.

    I think the last great president was FDR.

    I think the most effective contemporary president was Clinton. He could have been even more effective had he not got head on the side.
    Distance lends enchantment. FDR was far from perfect, and progressives accused him of selling out on a daily basis - and not all of their claims were off base.
  14. 15 Aug '11 23:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    But they are a Republic, not a democracy.
    We are a representative democracy.
  15. 15 Aug '11 23:03
    People laughed at Ford, Bush Sr., Dole, etc., but those guys were stalwarts compared to the current crop of Republican candidates.

    I ask again, what has happened to the Republican party.